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Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

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Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#201

Post by halbritt »

oaiey wrote: post #90
halbritt wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of MSSQL-Linux is proof that Microsoft can get this done. The story is pretty interesting: https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2016/12/16/sql-se...

Just that a database server is a very specific thing. Own memory handling, own file system handling, own scheduling, ... . The core of these systems give a shit about the operating system.

No argument that a desktop environment and a database server are different things. It'd be hard to judge which is a more complex task.

Even still, read the story about how they built an OS abstraction layer on top of Windows and Linux and then ported their product to it. That was an impressive feat and an perfect example of Microsoft doing something (maybe only this one thing) right.

Unlike Office on Mac which was a piece of shit for very many years and a very different product than Office on Windows.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#202

Post by zapzupnz »

Zardoz84 wrote: post #143
zapzupnz wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always saw Canonical as trying to do this, considering what pains they used to go through to not use the term 'Linux' in their marketing. They were playing things as though Ubuntu was their own platform (and in many ways, given the different ways that Ubuntu used to break compatibility with plain Debian, it was) — their own software centre, their own desktop, their own services. Many of those seem to have gone by t…

you know that everything that unity was doing, can be donde indica KDE if you take 20 minutes to configure it? Try to not call it "amateur"

> you know that everything that unity was doing can be done in KDE […]

Please re-read what I said.

I said that I was hopeful that Ubuntu would create something that would make KDE and GNOME seem like amateur hour. I never said Unity was the thing for which I was hoping, merely that it was Ubuntu's attempt (which, to my mind, was a failure), and I never said KDE or GNOME __are__ amateur — although, you forced my hand with the next bit.

> […] if you take 20 minutes to configure it

This is exactly what I'm talking about as "amateur", though.

Try thinking like a regular user, who just wants everything to work properly out of the box, rather than a technical user who might be happy wasting 20 minutes on the fruitless endeavour of getting KDE to work Just Right This Time And I Swear I Won't Spend Another Couple of Hours Reconfiguring It Again Later When I'm Bored™, because that very way of thinking is exactly why the Year of Linux Desktop will never come.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#203

Post by MR4D »

riffraff wrote: post #43
MR4D wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A shortcut (perhaps the wrong word here) would be to migrate the Xbox to Xbox libraries on top of a Linux core. This would minimize the hardware for them to start with. After a couple years, they could make Windows server run on a Linux core, and then another couple years have Windows run on Linux. The whole progression could be pretty smooth, covering several years and taking a milestone-driven approach. With the su…

What would they gain from this?

Harmonization with the rest of the computing world (everything else is effectively a Unix variant) as well as lower dev costs (kernel dev cost would now be shared with everyone else).

Nadella is a smart guy and has moved MSFT in the right direction. If his truly makes sense, then he’ll probably do it.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#204

Post by [deleted] »

whyonearth wrote: post #170
crispinb wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's a bit contradictory to choose an insecure OS because a more secure one doesn't support a nice-to-have piece of security hardware. Maybe. But that has nothing to do with what I wrote. > I'd be interested in the specifics Would you? Or would you like to gather factoids in pursuit of your belief that everyone must make the choices you make? > that you anticipate on supported hardware Not "anticipate". Exp…

You really fail to see the irony in investing in a strong padlock for a building with thin glass windows? You have defensive replies to everybody here so please don't project your attitude onto those of us who are legitimately curious about what's giving you trouble. Note the name of the website.

[deleted]

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#205

Post by crispinb »

whyonearth wrote: post #170
crispinb wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's a bit contradictory to choose an insecure OS because a more secure one doesn't support a nice-to-have piece of security hardware. Maybe. But that has nothing to do with what I wrote. > I'd be interested in the specifics Would you? Or would you like to gather factoids in pursuit of your belief that everyone must make the choices you make? > that you anticipate on supported hardware Not "anticipate". Exp…

You really fail to see the irony in investing in a strong padlock for a building with thin glass windows? You have defensive replies to everybody here so please don't project your attitude onto those of us who are legitimately curious about what's giving you trouble. Note the name of the website.

I don't see obvious evidence of 'curiosity' in your replies - they seem more like someone who roughly throws all statements about linux into assumed "linux rocks" vs "linux sucks" buckets. If I've misinterpreted you, I'm sorry for my part in that. You've clearly misinterpreted what I've written, and to the extent that's due to my lack of clarity, I'm also sorry about that. But in any case I'm a linux admirer - I doubt I've had a work day in the last decade that hasn't involved using linux on servers.

As I thought I had made clear, the issues I found with my laptop Ubuntu installations are probably largely fixable with reading & research. There's a fair bit of information about them in (for example) the Gentoo and Arch linux doco sites. But I'm not looking for answers because that's not how I choose to spend my time. There's enough else to deal with in life, and I am no longer an OS hobbyist who does this stuff for fun.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#206

Post by Endy »

suby wrote: post #122
Endy wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am quite proudly a lag-behind when it comes to tech within the last decade. The rest of you can go on ahead and suffer all the horrible bugs that would have been found in QA testing, if the testers had been given adequate time and resources. I'll happily arrive after you're done and use the finished product. Also, I've never updated Android OS on a device - every phone and/or tablet I have, has the version of Andro…

Are you not getting Android or iOS security updates, then?

What's a security update? I don't expect them to be responsible for my security - that's my burden as the user to make sure that I'm using software and files I personally trust.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#207

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Endy wrote: post #206
suby wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you not getting Android or iOS security updates, then?

What's a security update? I don't expect them to be responsible for my security - that's my burden as the user to make sure that I'm using software and files I personally trust.

That seems a pretty illogical position, it relies on developers being perfect at security. It doesn't matter how much you trust someone you must realise that people are fallible; that, in context, means that hardware and software will have [security] bugs/feature oversights.

If/When you discover a bug, and the developer has a fix out as a security update -- eg heartbleed -- then would you really not update because you trusted that developer before. Surely that they've issued a patch that they suggest to apply means, if you trust them, that you should apply the patch?

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#208

Post by type0 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #151
askvictor wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had a decent go at all three major OSes (windows, osx and Linux) in the past few years, I've found all of them to have a whole bunch of annoyances that stop me being able to do what I want, how I want it.

Definitely. It's more a matter of choosing the one that sucks the least for your needs than anything else. And since they all seem to be drifting farther and farther away from what I actually want in a personal computer I've started entertaining the idea of making my own (not a new kernel, just most of the stuff on top of it, a new "operating environment"). But it's a ton of work and I'm not really qualified to do mo…

forum.osdev.org wiki.osdev.org

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#209

Post by pbhjpbhj »

karmasimida wrote: post #58

Can't see it happen. Desktop Linux has no meaningful user base, with or without MSFT.

Well, Steam [1] is probably a good measure of "desktop" as it's usually home users that install on their personal computers?

So, by that measure Linux has ¼ of the users of MacOS.

The significance of that for you is not my call though.

Steam's top seller in 2017 was PUBG at $600 Million, so assuming equal spread of revenue that 0.8% represents $4.8M you're leaving on the table. With less competition on Linux then there's possibly a higher revenue to be gained there for AAA titles? It might be worth risking a bit of dicking around with Proton/WINE to get your game working for a few extra mega-dollars?

NetMarketShare.com gives similar ratios for Linux : Mac on desktop, giving Linux 2% of desktop/laptop installs.

[1] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

[2] https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-03-23-valves-gen...

[3] https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share...

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#210

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

type0 wrote: post #208
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. It's more a matter of choosing the one that sucks the least for your needs than anything else. And since they all seem to be drifting farther and farther away from what I actually want in a personal computer I've started entertaining the idea of making my own (not a new kernel, just most of the stuff on top of it, a new "operating environment"). But it's a ton of work and I'm not really qualified to do mo…

forum.osdev.org wiki.osdev.org

Not quite. Those are the kind of people who would write their own kernel for fun. The kind of community I'm looking for would be focused on building a practical personal computing platform.
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