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Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

zdnet.com

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Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#101

Post by crispinb »

sho wrote: post #76
didibus wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give openSuse Tumbleweed a try, with KDE Plasma. I've been running it on a 10 year old XPS 13, smooth as butter. Or KDE Neon if you'd rather have an Ubuntu core. I heard good things about it but didn't try.

Sigh. No offense but it's comments like this that remind me why no, I haven't tried desktop linux recently. No, I am not going to mess around trying KDE Plasma or SomethingElse Tumbleweed or OpenWuffe SnufflePuss XL or any other of the billion permutations of half-baked shit which might or might not work. I am mid-career, I have money, I have little time and even less interest in fucking around with any of that just…

I see from the obtuse responses you've received, there's really little point in summoning the effort to type anything besides either 'linux sux' or 'linux rocks'.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#102

Post by fourthark »

kgc wrote: post #97

They could. However, if they did, they would need to open source everything they ship with it, if I remember the GPL correctly. But also, I think it would be a daring and interesting business move. I'd probably start using Windows more if they did, and usage is the ultimate prize these days.

No, by the most common interpretation, apps don't need to be GPL'd, because they are not linked to the OS.

This is what makes Android possible.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#103

Post by pritambaral »

jchw wrote: post #100

I agree with the skepticism here regarding the ease of getting Windows software working on Linux. The Wine and CrossOver folks are doing the Lord's work but even they have their limits. Linux software tends to not rely on much. Linux makes it really hard to rely on much. The internals change often and the kernel is not nice to people who try to rely on implementation details, of what you can from usermode. You can ha…

> I'm pretty sure Linux kernel modules can't easily do that.

They can, and rootkits in the past (unsurprisingly) have. But that's just technical ability; users willing to run things like that is a whole different matter, especially when we can just namespace and/or sandbox apps.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#104

Post by qplex »

sho wrote: post #76
didibus wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give openSuse Tumbleweed a try, with KDE Plasma. I've been running it on a 10 year old XPS 13, smooth as butter. Or KDE Neon if you'd rather have an Ubuntu core. I heard good things about it but didn't try.

Sigh. No offense but it's comments like this that remind me why no, I haven't tried desktop linux recently. No, I am not going to mess around trying KDE Plasma or SomethingElse Tumbleweed or OpenWuffe SnufflePuss XL or any other of the billion permutations of half-baked shit which might or might not work. I am mid-career, I have money, I have little time and even less interest in fucking around with any of that just…

Have you actually tried a Linux machine from a company that bundles hardware, software and support or are you just comparing apples to oranges?

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#105

Post by CoolGuySteve »

jchw wrote: post #100

I agree with the skepticism here regarding the ease of getting Windows software working on Linux. The Wine and CrossOver folks are doing the Lord's work but even they have their limits. Linux software tends to not rely on much. Linux makes it really hard to rely on much. The internals change often and the kernel is not nice to people who try to rely on implementation details, of what you can from usermode. You can ha…

Wine is a lot different from virtualization. It’s likely if Microsoft did release a Windows compatible Linux (or some micro kernel thing) they would virtualize the SxS assemblies and kernel for each application to help with security and compatibility.

They gave a demo called MinWin years ago that more or less did the same thing.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#106

Post by jchw »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #105
jchw wrote: post #100

I agree with the skepticism here regarding the ease of getting Windows software working on Linux. The Wine and CrossOver folks are doing the Lord's work but even they have their limits. Linux software tends to not rely on much. Linux makes it really hard to rely on much. The internals change often and the kernel is not nice to people who try to rely on implementation details, of what you can from usermode. You can ha…

Wine is a lot different from virtualization. It’s likely if Microsoft did release a Windows compatible Linux (or some micro kernel thing) they would virtualize the SxS assemblies and kernel for each application to help with security and compatibility. They gave a demo called MinWin years ago that more or less did the same thing.

That would be a very neat approach. I had not heard of MinWin until today and now I'm pretty curious exactly what it entails and what the implications of it are.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#107

Post by jchw »

pritambaral wrote: post #103
jchw wrote: post #100

I agree with the skepticism here regarding the ease of getting Windows software working on Linux. The Wine and CrossOver folks are doing the Lord's work but even they have their limits. Linux software tends to not rely on much. Linux makes it really hard to rely on much. The internals change often and the kernel is not nice to people who try to rely on implementation details, of what you can from usermode. You can ha…

> I'm pretty sure Linux kernel modules can't easily do that. They can, and rootkits in the past (unsurprisingly) have. But that's just technical ability; users willing to run things like that is a whole different matter, especially when we can just namespace and/or sandbox apps.

I'm not so surprised that rootkits can exist on Linux, but I was under the impression the Linux kernel made it much harder to break out of the framework provided and patch over whatever you wanted. Sure, it's all Ring 0, but there's kASLR and you have limited visibility, maybe not even a map of symbols. Is it still possible to do this kind of attack today?

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#108

Post by pritambaral »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #72
gingerbread-man wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking more that an open-source kernel could result in unix-y distros e.g. Arch Windows.

Yeah, because you know what'd be really great? If Windows had the same fragmentation mess that Linux Desktop does.

One's "fragmentation" is another's "choice".

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#109

Post by sjellis »

crispinb wrote: post #10

I'd like to use linux, and install it from time to time, but am always eventually worn down by problems, some trivial & some less so, that could mostly be solved, but at the cost of research & fiddling time I'm not interested in spending. The issues largely fall into two categories - missing software, and missing or undercooked hardware support. If Microsoft did signal to the market an increased long-term support for…

> The issues largely fall into two categories - missing software, and missing or undercooked hardware support.

I've trying every Fedora release for about two years, with a view to switching (back) from macOS. Everybody has their priorities, but Fedora is now there on software and features for my uses. If I switch back now, I'll lose the official Google Drive client, but that's it.

In the past, I've run Linux desktops without hardware issues by buying slightly older ex-corporate laptops with Intel CPUs and graphics. Today, there seem to be a bunch of vendors offering Linux preloaded, so I don't expect to this to be a big problem.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#110

Post by CoolGuySteve »

jchw wrote: post #106
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wine is a lot different from virtualization. It’s likely if Microsoft did release a Windows compatible Linux (or some micro kernel thing) they would virtualize the SxS assemblies and kernel for each application to help with security and compatibility. They gave a demo called MinWin years ago that more or less did the same thing.

That would be a very neat approach. I had not heard of MinWin until today and now I'm pretty curious exactly what it entails and what the implications of it are.

It’s actually difficult to piece together what MinWin was exactly. Some sources say it used virtualization, other source say it was an extremely limited NT kernel. I suspect it was a little of both.
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