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Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

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Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#61

Post by innagadadavida »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #20
innagadadavida wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Linux is faster and more scalable, Using BSD like Apple has many advantrges - especially when there are thousands of closed-source windows drivers which will never be released as open source. The other big hurdle is the sad state of Linux graphical facilities in the kernel. For Apple, this was never a problem due to limited hardware choices.

Well if I were them I'd implement my own stable driver ABI so companies wouldn't be forced to open source them (like it really makes a difference anyway with all the firmware blobs) and you wouldn't have to recompile every single driver for every single kernel revision. I'd also move more stuff into user space like they did in Windows, which is why a video or sound driver crash usually just wigs out the screen for a…

Not likely to happen - not very long ago, MS likened GPL to a virus. Since then, they have changed a lot, but fundamentally, they need to protect vendors interests, IP, profitability - not appease some open source proponents.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#62

Post by mianos »

dankube wrote: post #36
simonblack wrote: post #3

I suggested on Mini-Microsoft about 10 years ago that Microsoft do an 'Apple'. Apple took a free OS from BSD and put their own GUI over the top of it. I suggested that MSFT do the same sort of thing, that being to put their Windows GUI on top of the Linux OS instead of using the Linux X11 GUIs. This had the advantage that the underlying OS base would no longer need maintaining by Microsoft, and all their coding effor…

They already did that once. It's called Windows NT, largely derived from DEC VMS. Here's an article about it: https://www.itprotoday.com/compute-engines/windows-nt-and-vm...

Not derived at all. The design principles and operation are similar due to a few of the same people working on both. Would you say Linux is derived from Unix? I guess many would but, personally, I am working on a new trading system, would it be derived from my previous work? I would say this one is brand new, but shares common concepts due to the requirement of being a trading system. I would definitely say it is not derived at all. The way I do things similarly because they work well in practice is not derivation to me.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#63

Post by h1d »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #40
h1d wrote: post #27

If it happens, it would be the most jaw dropping event of the decade. But MS has a room to keep their own ecosystem as losing it will have less diversity as we've seen when they dropped Edge not to mention the world will come to a halt without Windows that can run apps from the last 20 years. Having a UNIX kernel at the core would be really nice which would make developers easy to port apps between OS but how would t…

Could Microsoft stop actively developing Windows, only provide security updates and whatever else is necessary?

People might actually like it when things don't change.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#64

Post by solatic »

Does this even make sense unless Office gets ported to Linux? Given that Office 365 is turning into Microsoft's main source of desktop revenue, porting Office to Linux is what will allow Microsoft to start to build an entire Linux desktop experience that still generate revenue for the company.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#65

Post by ocdtrekkie »

gingerbread-man wrote: post #55
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is commonly suggested and I don't even think from a business revenue standpoint it would be a big deal for them. The biggest issue is that it is a 20 year code base with 20 year old bugs and open sourcing the whole thing would immediately generate open season on Windows boxes from a security standpoint. You'll see Microsoft open source new things as they go, and probably smaller components as they rework them, b…

A very good point. But if that were the only impediment, I suspect Microsoft could come up with a rollout plan to mitigate (though not completely eliminate) this problem. Releasing a "preview" of the kernel source to trusted security researchers and academics might be a start.

Believe it or not, trusted security researchers and academics already can request parts of the Windows source code, under non disclosure agreements, of course.

But it's one of the largest codebases in the world, AFAIK, and it's immensely complicated. It's hard to quantify just how much work would need to be done to verify it was even marginally safe for release. And there's tons of licensing related issues as well, as far as where Microsoft may have gotten some of the code inside Windows.

It's not impossible, but it's a big gamble, and Microsoft is not a company that gambles big. It's not really in their culture to do what you're suggesting. I would be thrilled if they did, but I'd be jaw-droppingly shocked if it did.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#66

Post by didibus »

simonblack wrote: post #3

I suggested on Mini-Microsoft about 10 years ago that Microsoft do an 'Apple'. Apple took a free OS from BSD and put their own GUI over the top of it. I suggested that MSFT do the same sort of thing, that being to put their Windows GUI on top of the Linux OS instead of using the Linux X11 GUIs. This had the advantage that the underlying OS base would no longer need maintaining by Microsoft, and all their coding effor…

I would like that quite a bit. As X11 is probably the worst part of Linux. That said, you'd lose a lot of apps and games in the process.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#67

Post by untog »

gingerbread-man wrote: post #55
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is commonly suggested and I don't even think from a business revenue standpoint it would be a big deal for them. The biggest issue is that it is a 20 year code base with 20 year old bugs and open sourcing the whole thing would immediately generate open season on Windows boxes from a security standpoint. You'll see Microsoft open source new things as they go, and probably smaller components as they rework them, b…

A very good point. But if that were the only impediment, I suspect Microsoft could come up with a rollout plan to mitigate (though not completely eliminate) this problem. Releasing a "preview" of the kernel source to trusted security researchers and academics might be a start.

I think that underestimates how truly difficult it would be. How many machines are out there in the world still running NT4? Identifying bugs is all well and good but ensuring the fixes go where they're needed... that would be a whole lot more work.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#68

Post by rmason »

Back when Windows 8 was causing all sorts of problems I did my annual top ten list of what's coming in the following year. One of my predictions was that Microsoft would move Windows to using Linux as the back end.

Overall Windows would become much more stable, they might be able to get some Mac users to switch and they could put more people on getting the UI right. Like a lot of my bolder predictions on each years list I got it way wrong.

In my defense I didn't know anyone at Microsoft at the time to run my idea by. Still think it makes some sense though in a way they ended up giving Windows at the *nix command line as a gift to Mac developers. I'm happy with Windows 10, for me it's just good enough.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#69

Post by halbritt »

crispinb wrote: post #59
halbritt wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you guys tried Linux on the desktop recently? There's a host of folks in my org running Ubuntu on Dell XPS laptops. Issues do arise, but they're pretty rare. I made the switch from Mac almost two years ago and it's been great.

Yep, on the XPS this year (the last time a new Ubuntu install a couple of weeks ago). Many problems. Some fixable, but a poorer use of my time than running or sailing or any number of three-dimensional activities I choose over screen flatland when not working.

I'm not going to pretend there aren't issues, but subjectively it feels to me like there are few. The UI is decent and usable.

For me the dealing with the few issues that arise is a better use of my time than wrestling with things like Docker on Mac, homebrew, ancient python, and weird VPN issues that seem to pop up with every upgrade.

Re: Could Microsoft release a desktop Linux?

#70

Post by simpsond »

rmason wrote: post #68

Back when Windows 8 was causing all sorts of problems I did my annual top ten list of what's coming in the following year. One of my predictions was that Microsoft would move Windows to using Linux as the back end. Overall Windows would become much more stable, they might be able to get some Mac users to switch and they could put more people on getting the UI right. Like a lot of my bolder predictions on each years l…

I've thought the same thing for a long time (10+ years, I must be wrong). It makes sense from a business perspective as well. I still think it will happen, but not sure when. The addition of Ubuntu shell was a pretty interesting move.
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