Given i personally have 1.5 million, that feels nice and low.
Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
141–150 of 287 posts
Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
#142Doesn't debt have to sum to zero globally? A debt held by one person is an equal asset owed another. Or perhaps this is a measure of the number of debts outstanding, divided per person, but not accounting for assets.
Not necessarily. The value of debt as an asset is often less than the amount owed, because there is a non-trivial risk that the debt will not be paid back in full. Furthermore, if you are a central bank, you can effectively borrow money from your future self.
Aren't all loans effectively borrowing money from your future self? :)
Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
#143To anyone wondering what debt "means", or if some debts will ever be repaid, or wondering about "jubilees" where debts are forgiven, I recommend David Graeber's book "Debt: The First 5000 Years". I am not sure if some of the ideas about debt that Graeber argues are correct, but he does discuss a lot of interesting examples of debt from societies throughout history. https://www.mhpbooks.com/books/debt/ https://en.wiki…
> "To anyone wondering what debt "means", or if some debts will ever be repaid, or wondering about "jubilees" where debts are forgiven" Can you just give the answers to these questions?
The answers are very complex. In the book, Graeber shows that debt is as much a cultural/social norm as any other abstract, social construct we've invented throughout history. What debt meant in early Buddhist Nepal or Sumeria or aboriginal Australia, and what it means in modern western economies is completely tied in with governmental/religious/familial etc. structures that existed in the given time. He goes into great detail about many forms which debt has taken and - where it's known - gives some relevant context to help understand it.
One thing he does point out, however, is that in recent decades, much of our debt has seemed to shift from a more useful tool for robust modern economies - as it was used in early 20th century for Keynesian stimulus and the likes - to more of a tool for subjugation, through new forms of debt peonage - e.g. with student debt in the USA or financial aid packages to former colonies - very similar to what we've seen in earlier times.
I think it's a fantastic book, offering a very compelling narrative of how our social systems have evolved around these notions of debt since civilisation began. Also, if anyone wants to dig into the book right away, there are free versions of the book online[0], including an audiobook[1]. Since Graeber is an anarchist, I'm sure he doesn't mind if not everyone is paying for it ;)
[0] https://libcom.org/files/__Debt__The_First_5_000_Years.pdf [1] http://www.unwelcomeguests.net/Debt,_The_First_5000_Years
Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
#144Given i personally have 1.5 million, that feels nice and low.
weird flex, but ok
Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
#145What if we just delete all the debt and start from zero? Won't the zero (everything people have built and developed to the date) be better than if the debtors had never taken the credits?
I would like a theoretical answer ignoring the ethical part and the fact creditors will become less willing to lend money again if this happens.
Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
#146What if we just delete all the debt and start from zero? Won't the zero (everything people have built and developed to the date) be better than if the debtors had never taken the credits? I would like a theoretical answer ignoring the ethical part and the fact creditors will become less willing to lend money again if this happens.
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Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
#147What if we just delete all the debt and start from zero? Won't the zero (everything people have built and developed to the date) be better than if the debtors had never taken the credits? I would like a theoretical answer ignoring the ethical part and the fact creditors will become less willing to lend money again if this happens.
And what about the creditors? And what about the future people who want to borrow to finance something, but are unable to because everyone is afraid to lend money?
Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
#148What if we just delete all the debt and start from zero? Won't the zero (everything people have built and developed to the date) be better than if the debtors had never taken the credits? I would like a theoretical answer ignoring the ethical part and the fact creditors will become less willing to lend money again if this happens.
What if some humans are greedy to the point of everyone suffering huge social issues, what if creditors get their money while the poor starve? Won’t somebody think of the bankers in all this!
Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
#149Doesn't debt have to sum to zero globally? A debt held by one person is an equal asset owed another. Or perhaps this is a measure of the number of debts outstanding, divided per person, but not accounting for assets.
I believe the statistic referenced in this headline is roughly total sum of debt in the world (184 trillion) / earth population (7.6 billion) is the total number of debt per person. I think what you are driving at is exactly why this article is misleading. edit: I don't think debt is exactly zero sum. When a loan is made, the person who took the load has a debt of the present value of future loan payments(ie with int…
Right, if you have US government bonds (or a bond fund) in your 401k, that's included in the total. Your savings is also loaned out to others, and counts toward this number.
Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person
#150Doesn't debt have to sum to zero globally? A debt held by one person is an equal asset owed another. Or perhaps this is a measure of the number of debts outstanding, divided per person, but not accounting for assets.
Bingo. It's meaningless to talk about debt without mentioning assets.
Not necessarily in all conversations. The quality of the collateral asset is subject to lots of things.
If you look at what happened during the Great Depression, assets were effectively worthless — demand vaporized and seemingly safe loans secured by valuable factories became junk.