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Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

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Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#61

Post by stale2002 »

eganist wrote: post #50

Surprising amount of support for IP theft here today. The US got away with it because countries like the UK couldn't police it during the industrial revolution. Whoops. The Chinese got away with it because the US couldn't police it on the global stage. Whoops. --- But the US might've found a way to police it effectively now... soooo why would we not? Why would we permit it because others historically got away with it…

> But the US might've found a way to police it effectively now... soooo why would we not?

Because IP law is morally wrong and makes the world a significantly worse place? Anything that underminds IP law is good, in my book, no matter who benefits.

There are lots of horrible things in the world that would be economicly beneficial to the offending party, that we don't do because they are wrong.

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#62

Post by reissbaker »

DennisP wrote: post #49
walexander wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no moral obligation for them to do so and yes they can choose not to enforce US IP law if they don't want to. The US can also choose to place massive tariffs on any goods coming out of China, making them highly uncompetitive. Their choice, it looks like.

In which case China does the same thing back to us, as we've been seeing lately. Most economists think this sort of thing does more harm than good.

To be honest, I think this is hurting China more than the US, and we're seeing that reflect in the Chinese economy. The US is also the stronger global superpower of the two for now — see, for example, Canada's arrest of Huawei's CFO under the direction of the American government, whereas I doubt Canada would arrest any American citizens at the behest of China — so I think the US has more of an ability to enforce its rules than China has the ability to enforce its desired alternate set of rules. Picking a fight with the US also means picking a fight with most of the US trade allies, which are the richest countries in the world by far: nearly half of the entire world's GDP is generated by the US and the EU alone (37 trillion out of 80 trillion global GDP); and that's not counting heavy hitters like Japan, Canada, Mexico, and South Korea. I don't see a lot of win conditions for China on this one.

IP theft is illegal in pretty much the entire industrialized world. China's big, but it's not bigger than everyone else combined.

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#63

Post by Havoc »

eganist wrote: post #50

Surprising amount of support for IP theft here today. The US got away with it because countries like the UK couldn't police it during the industrial revolution. Whoops. The Chinese got away with it because the US couldn't police it on the global stage. Whoops. --- But the US might've found a way to police it effectively now... soooo why would we not? Why would we permit it because others historically got away with it…

>But the US might've found a way to police it effectively now

eh...really? Like how?

You really think IP theft got halted because one guy was arrested?

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#64

Post by forkandwait »

eganist wrote: post #50

Surprising amount of support for IP theft here today. The US got away with it because countries like the UK couldn't police it during the industrial revolution. Whoops. The Chinese got away with it because the US couldn't police it on the global stage. Whoops. --- But the US might've found a way to police it effectively now... soooo why would we not? Why would we permit it because others historically got away with it…

A lot of us don't really think intellectual property is actually property and thar the notion of IP is, well, bullshit.

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#65

Post by Havoc »

I kind feel the same about the US. The majority of the horror stories about people being forced to spit out password and getting devices taken away for copying...straight out of the country that spends all its time exporting "freedom".

Pretty happy in Europe. China, Russia and America all seem dodgy AF lately. Overtly so...I shudder to think what happens behind the scenes.

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#66

Post by pfisch »

forkandwait wrote: post #64
eganist wrote: post #50

Surprising amount of support for IP theft here today. The US got away with it because countries like the UK couldn't police it during the industrial revolution. Whoops. The Chinese got away with it because the US couldn't police it on the global stage. Whoops. --- But the US might've found a way to police it effectively now... soooo why would we not? Why would we permit it because others historically got away with it…

A lot of us don't really think intellectual property is actually property and thar the notion of IP is, well, bullshit.

Sounds good. Lets shut down all private medical research and call it a day then right?

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#67

Post by ggm »

ArchTypical wrote: post #58
ggm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This trade war is not being prosecuted flawlessly, and as Ike or somebody like him said, no plan survives first engagement with the enemy. Trump does not have a unified national intent behind him. I don't agree with him or his policies, in this or any other regard but trying to think dispassionately, I think appointing Bolton to signal strength of will demands having somebody more flexible to negotiate the real outco…

> Trump is probably going to lose the trade war over Iran Who cares what "Trump" loses? This is about the USA and Trump will be long gone before any of these situations are measured. The USA is not starting a trade war with Iran (first time I've ever heard sanctions called a trade war), the US is enacting sanctions to hurt Iran without scaring allies like Saudi Arabia. > China holds far more US debt than Americans ho…

The USA is not starting a trade war with Iran (first time I've ever heard sanctions called a trade war), the US is enacting sanctions to hurt Iran without scaring allies like Saudi Arabia

The trade war is with the EU and Russia. Iran is a huge potential future market, alongside the rest of the non saudi aligned Middle East. After Iraq the contracts for rebuild and repair went to classic US interested parties in trade retaliation for prior diplomatic posture in the m.e. by France and Germany.

Please explain to me what I don't understand about china holding US debt,and what it means tactically regarding the trade war.

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#68

Post by kickopotomus »

forkandwait wrote: post #64
eganist wrote: post #50

Surprising amount of support for IP theft here today. The US got away with it because countries like the UK couldn't police it during the industrial revolution. Whoops. The Chinese got away with it because the US couldn't police it on the global stage. Whoops. --- But the US might've found a way to police it effectively now... soooo why would we not? Why would we permit it because others historically got away with it…

A lot of us don't really think intellectual property is actually property and thar the notion of IP is, well, bullshit.

If that is the case, then how do you propose that any private organization (especially small ones) should operate?

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#69

Post by wobblegong »

coldtea wrote: post #30
polartx wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, because Samuel Slater smuggled cotton spinner trade secrets out of England in 1789, China is justified committing IP theft today. Sound logic

The logic is "if you've used it to become the richest nation on earth don't knock out others using it to become rich". And those that still benefit from the heads-tart due to their country/ancestors having done so, shouldn't play it holier than thou either. Not to mention the whole hypocrisy, since the US has used corporate espionage and actual spying on supposed "allies" corporations since forever and still does, pl…

The real issue is that developed countries don't help other developing countries develop. The US got rich in the same ways that China is now getting rich, by stealing.

I think this is my favorite article on the subject.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/08/china-is-cheating-at-a-...

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#70

Post by DennisP »

reissbaker wrote: post #62
DennisP wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which case China does the same thing back to us, as we've been seeing lately. Most economists think this sort of thing does more harm than good.

To be honest, I think this is hurting China more than the US, and we're seeing that reflect in the Chinese economy. The US is also the stronger global superpower of the two for now — see, for example, Canada's arrest of Huawei's CFO under the direction of the American government, whereas I doubt Canada would arrest any American citizens at the behest of China — so I think the US has more of an ability to enforce its…

"This does more harm than good" and "this is hurting China more than the US" can both be true.
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