Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water • Hacker News Board

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#61

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:08 PM UTC

cowpewter wrote: post #27

cortesoft wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, but I am never sure how that is supposed to be practical. You need to use warm water, which is easy with tap water, but hard to do quickly with distilled or boiled water. I know it has risks, but I still use normal tap water. From what I have read, all of the cases are from people using well water, never from city provided, chlorinated water. It actually says this in the article, too.

Whenever I use a neti pot, I use distilled water and heat it for a brief time in the microwave, adding additional room temp distilled afterward if it comes out too hot.

Exactly this. Putting it in the bottle and microwaving for 38 seconds (experimentally determined, your may vary) makes it a nice, comfortable temperature for use.

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#62

Post by basic1 » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:09 PM UTC

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #33

I still don't quite understand how tap water in a neti-pot is significantly more dangerous than swimming in local lakes, swimming pool or the ocean. Certainly, you get water in your sinuses from that, right?

This stuff lives in old water heaters right? It could've happened any time, but if you're using a neti pot you probably have a cold and are already susceptible to infection.

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#63

Post by BjoernKW » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:09 PM UTC

cowpewter wrote: post #31

dhimes wrote: post #12

I'm a little confused. Was the tap-water untreated (that is, well water)? Can these damn things survive chlorination? They're a known danger swimming in southern (US)- meaning warm- fresh-water lakes and ponds. But- damn, this is scary. Probably because I also use a neti-pot. Neti-pots are often used to help alleviate the symptoms of sinusitis. My neti-pot came with packets of salts that you dissolve in the water, wh…

The salts are to reduce irritation. Plain water is extremely uncomfortable in your sinuses, but saline is fine. As far as I know they do nothing to reduce contaminants in your water or harm bacteria.

Yes, the salt mainly is meant to reduce irritation.

Amoeba aren't bacteria, though. Both, however should be adversely affected by saline solutions because osmosis will draw water out of the cells, effectively killing these organisms.

Salt can be as effective a disinfectant as chlorine if dissolved in water. There are public swimming pools that make use of this because chlorine can have adverse effects on your health, such as causing irritation on both the skin and the respiratory system.

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#64

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:11 PM UTC

jimmyswimmy wrote: post #38

chipperyman573 wrote: post #4

I had surgery on my sinuses and and have to do this as well. The product I use (Neilmed sinus rinse) has warnings ALL OVER the box, bottle, and in the instruction pamphlet to only use previously boiled water, distilled water, freshly opened bottled water, or water that has somehow otherwise been filtered. It specifically says NOT to use tap water. They also have a website (that has recently been updated to mention th…

I don't think this is 'darwinism at work.' Where engineered controls are inadequate or impractical, it is incumbent on manufacturers to provide sufficient training and placard reminders to prevent users' injury or death. The bottle I have has no warning of what kind of water to use, and the sachets of salt do say what kind of water but it is in small font and they don't caution the user NOT to use tap water. In my ca…

> the sachets of salt do say what kind of water but it is in small font and they don't caution the user NOT to use tap water

The salt packets are about 1.5" x 1". It's physically impossible for the lettering to be in anything other than a small font.

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#65

Post by wozer » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:14 PM UTC

hokumguru wrote: post #47

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #33

I still don't quite understand how tap water in a neti-pot is significantly more dangerous than swimming in local lakes, swimming pool or the ocean. Certainly, you get water in your sinuses from that, right?

Lake swimming is the primary way people are infected with brain-eating amoeba. It is a fresh-water amoeba that is killed by chlorine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri

Can this happen to anybody, or only to people with a weakened immune system?

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#66

Post by dom96 » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:14 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #21

capkutay wrote: post #2

Sounds like she was using a neti-pot. I thought most of the neti-pot products made it pretty clear that you're supposed to use previously boiled or distilled bottled water. Maybe they need to make it more clear that the consequences of using tap water can be pretty dangerous.

They do, but I am never sure how that is supposed to be practical. You need to use warm water, which is easy with tap water, but hard to do quickly with distilled or boiled water. I know it has risks, but I still use normal tap water. From what I have read, all of the cases are from people using well water, never from city provided, chlorinated water. It actually says this in the article, too.

Can you explain why you use a neti-pot? I don't know anyone who uses one and I don't really understand the reasons behind it.

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#67

Post by BjoernKW » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:15 PM UTC

Distilled water certainly is the safest way but tap water mixed with salt in countries where it's safe to drink tap water in most cases should cause no harm either.

Salt works as a disinfectant when dissolved in water. When rinsing your sinuses you'll want to use saline water anyway because fresh water will hurt the mucous membranes in your nose.

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#68

Post by shawnz » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:15 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #21

capkutay wrote: post #2

Sounds like she was using a neti-pot. I thought most of the neti-pot products made it pretty clear that you're supposed to use previously boiled or distilled bottled water. Maybe they need to make it more clear that the consequences of using tap water can be pretty dangerous.

They do, but I am never sure how that is supposed to be practical. You need to use warm water, which is easy with tap water, but hard to do quickly with distilled or boiled water. I know it has risks, but I still use normal tap water. From what I have read, all of the cases are from people using well water, never from city provided, chlorinated water. It actually says this in the article, too.

You shouldn't be using water from the hot tap even just for drinking or cooking, let alone putting in a neti pot. Water from a hot water tank can contain high levels of dissolved contaminants since it sits in your plumbing system for extended periods at high temperatures.

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#69

Post by dhimes » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:16 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #37

dhimes wrote: post #12

I'm a little confused. Was the tap-water untreated (that is, well water)? Can these damn things survive chlorination? They're a known danger swimming in southern (US)- meaning warm- fresh-water lakes and ponds. But- damn, this is scary. Probably because I also use a neti-pot. Neti-pots are often used to help alleviate the symptoms of sinusitis. My neti-pot came with packets of salts that you dissolve in the water, wh…

Yes, it was well water. According to the article: > Amoebas may be found in fresh-water sources around Puget Sound such as wells, but aren’t present in city-treated water, according to Liz Coleman, a spokeswoman for the Environmental Public Health division of the state’s Department of Health.

Right. I wasn't sure if Coleman was saying "it couldn't have happened from her tap water, because it's treated" or if the implication was that the victim had a well. I like your interpretation- the latter.

Re: Rare brain-eating amoebas killed woman who rinsed her sinuses with tap water

#70

Post by emersonrsantos » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 9:18 PM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #54

emersonrsantos wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your symptoms are the same of people with untreated nasal polyps. Ask your doctor about nasal corticosteroid spray treatment.

I see that listed as causing a decreased sense of smell - can it also cause a hypersensitivity to odors? My sense of smell is very precise, to the point that I can do things like smell which friends my girlfriend visiting on the way home from work. It could be in part because I maintain such a pristine, scent free environment where as other people have environments flooded with fragrances. This started it about the s…

Yes, it distorts the sense of smell and taste - my mother-in-law would smell an annoying floral aroma everywhere, can’t smell certain foods or she would get immediate heartburn, and couldn’t taste salt or taste it too much in certain hours of the day. It’s weird! But we tend to not take our sense of smell and taste so seriously so I think it should be very important to the brain to have a healthy sense of smell and taste or else you would get these “hallucinations” because it cannot be a real allergy.