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Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

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Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#11

Post by fatjokes »

DennisP wrote: post #10
pytyper2 wrote: post #8

Because they are likely working for institutions that are committing IP theft, in this case it's better to keep them honest, they don't have a culture that respects the rules and customs of other cultures (common law, contract law).

Which is also what the U.S. did for its first century or so. A lot of us think U.S. IP law has seriously overextended itself these days. I'm not sure I entirely blame China for not going along with it.

You're not wrong. I wouldn't blame the US for wanting to defend against it. I just wouldn't bother with the "morality" card vs. a simple transactional justification.

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#12

Post by polartx »

DennisP wrote: post #10
pytyper2 wrote: post #8

Because they are likely working for institutions that are committing IP theft, in this case it's better to keep them honest, they don't have a culture that respects the rules and customs of other cultures (common law, contract law).

Which is also what the U.S. did for its first century or so. A lot of us think U.S. IP law has seriously overextended itself these days. I'm not sure I entirely blame China for not going along with it.

Ah yes, because Samuel Slater smuggled cotton spinner trade secrets out of England in 1789, China is justified committing IP theft today.

Sound logic

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#13

Post by bsamuels »

DennisP wrote: post #10
pytyper2 wrote: post #8

Because they are likely working for institutions that are committing IP theft, in this case it's better to keep them honest, they don't have a culture that respects the rules and customs of other cultures (common law, contract law).

Which is also what the U.S. did for its first century or so. A lot of us think U.S. IP law has seriously overextended itself these days. I'm not sure I entirely blame China for not going along with it.

What kinds of IP did the US steal in its first century? Interested from a historical perspective

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#14

Post by conistonwater »

DennisP wrote: post #10
pytyper2 wrote: post #8

Because they are likely working for institutions that are committing IP theft, in this case it's better to keep them honest, they don't have a culture that respects the rules and customs of other cultures (common law, contract law).

Which is also what the U.S. did for its first century or so. A lot of us think U.S. IP law has seriously overextended itself these days. I'm not sure I entirely blame China for not going along with it.

Is this just whataboutery, or can you please explain how your argument is supposed to work?

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#15

Post by EGreg »

USA’s main exports are IP and Dollars. They have engaged in petrodollar warfare and international treaties to protect the demand for their export and intimidate those (like Kim Dotcom) who threaten it in other countries. Just like Russia has done for natural gas, for instance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare

https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/tran...

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#16

Post by starbeast »

polartx wrote: post #12
DennisP wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is also what the U.S. did for its first century or so. A lot of us think U.S. IP law has seriously overextended itself these days. I'm not sure I entirely blame China for not going along with it.

Ah yes, because Samuel Slater smuggled cotton spinner trade secrets out of England in 1789, China is justified committing IP theft today. Sound logic

The definition of theft of IP is entirely a product of local jurisdiction though, given we are talking about temporary monopolies on ephemera and not physical protection of personal claims on objects or spaces.

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#17

Post by polartx »

bsamuels wrote: post #13
DennisP wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is also what the U.S. did for its first century or so. A lot of us think U.S. IP law has seriously overextended itself these days. I'm not sure I entirely blame China for not going along with it.

What kinds of IP did the US steal in its first century? Interested from a historical perspective

It was tech related to water powered cotton mills. In those times England had outlawed the exportation or manufacturing machinery as well as the emigration of persons with industry knowledge.

Sam Slater moved to the US in 1789 and partnered with a textile manufacturer to recreate the technology from memory. (Amusingly what he did may not have even been a violation of IP law by today's standards)

https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2017/07/05/americas-industrial-re...

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#18

Post by prewett »

bsamuels wrote: post #13
DennisP wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is also what the U.S. did for its first century or so. A lot of us think U.S. IP law has seriously overextended itself these days. I'm not sure I entirely blame China for not going along with it.

What kinds of IP did the US steal in its first century? Interested from a historical perspective

Samuel Slater apprenticed at a British cloth factory and memorized the design. Then he emigrated to the US and set up shop. Although, I think it might be more correct to say that the US allowed him to steal IP, rather than the country stealing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater

I think that US publishers, especially sheet music publishers, would copy British music and and publish it in the US, since I don't think that the US honored British copyright (at least some subset of it), but I can't think of good search terms to find any sources.

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#19

Post by chmod775 »

polartx wrote: post #12
DennisP wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is also what the U.S. did for its first century or so. A lot of us think U.S. IP law has seriously overextended itself these days. I'm not sure I entirely blame China for not going along with it.

Ah yes, because Samuel Slater smuggled cotton spinner trade secrets out of England in 1789, China is justified committing IP theft today. Sound logic

No need to go that far back. Try 2013.

And unless anything changed since the Snowden revelations, the US is still conducting (or attempting to conduct) industrial espionage to this day.

In some cases they were in direct violation of agreements they had with other countries concerning such espionage[1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Germany

Re: Chinese hi-tech researchers ‘told not to travel to US unless it’s essential’

#20

Post by roenxi »

conistonwater wrote: post #14
DennisP wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is also what the U.S. did for its first century or so. A lot of us think U.S. IP law has seriously overextended itself these days. I'm not sure I entirely blame China for not going along with it.

Is this just whataboutery, or can you please explain how your argument is supposed to work?

That particular argument isn't really sound, because the question is one of magnitude. However it still isn't obvious why China should enforce US IP law if it doesn't want to.

IP is the ultimate human creation, it has no basis in the physical world. If pretending ideas are property puts China at a disadvantage there isn't a moral or practical reason to do it.

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