Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 142 posts

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#121

Post by eropple »

Pamar wrote: post #96
eropple wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really good idea. The annoying thing in Boston is that you might have two packages from the same order (looking at you, Amazon) arrive at different times on the same day.

Would it be feasible to use a combination padlock and send the number as a part of the address/shipping note?

Maybe? Kind of doubt it, though. Plenty of places don't have a delivery-instruction field and a lot of deliveries (again lookin' at you, Amazon) are barely delivered at all. "Chuck it on the front step and go."

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#122

Post by gojomo »

build_products wrote: post #98
speedplane wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jailtime? The cost-benefit analysis doesn't support that, prison time is expensive and petty theft doesn't really cause that much damage. You're not considering deterrence. Sure, the cost/benefit of an individual does not support jailing a small-time thief. However, other potential thiefs may be deterred from committing the crime in the first place. This aggregate level of crime reduction often does justify itself…

Is deterrence really a thing? Multiple studies show that more severe punishments don't actually deter because the people committing the xrime almost never think of them. See https://nij.gov/five-things/Pages/deterrence.aspx

#1 on the list you forwarded is: "The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment." #3 is "Police deter crime by increasing the perception that criminals will be caught and punished."

Stings run by police, generating stories of caught-criminals, and making it so that repeat offenders face a rapidly-escalating likelihood of being caught, would seem to deter, by the evidence at your link.

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#123

Post by gojomo »

mantale wrote: post #110
gojomo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a strong cultural bias against corporal punishment in the US, but it should probably be studied, perhaps as an option a mature defendant can choose in lieu of another fine/imprisonment, but is never forced to take. If the practice actually deterred crime, without leaving any lasting physical or psychological damage – other than an aversion to re-offending – it deserves unemotional consideration.

Corporal punishments don't even work on children, what make you think it will work on adults?

I think it should be studied. Singapore famously uses them, and has vanishingly-tiny street-crime/property-crime rates. See, for example:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/16/singapores-crime-rate-is-so-...

My hunch is that it could work because it provides a cheap, rapid symbolic "closing of the psychological loop" – offense, capture, punishment.

Even though the tangible costs (in money and time) may be less, the necessary messages are sent to change the calculations of the sort of people who choose such crimes. Indeed, there may even be less collateral damage to their other lawful relationships (job, school, family), compared to jail time spent with (and learning from) other worse criminals.

In the US, jail time is a theoretical punishment, but very inconsistently applied because the courts and jails are crowded. Such uncertainty lessens the deterrent effect, and leaves the victims of petty crimes feeling helpless.

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#124

Post by onemoresoop »

gojomo wrote: post #77
stickfigure wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't caning a reasonable solution? Serious question.

There's a strong cultural bias against corporal punishment in the US, but it should probably be studied, perhaps as an option a mature defendant can choose in lieu of another fine/imprisonment, but is never forced to take. If the practice actually deterred crime, without leaving any lasting physical or psychological damage – other than an aversion to re-offending – it deserves unemotional consideration.

What do you mean, lashes for theft? How about if they were public? I hope I won't live to see that in the western world.

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#125

Post by onemoresoop »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #86
fladrif wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Community service, pays back the community, hopefully break-even cost in terms of administration and enforcement to labor productivity gained, at least won't be as bad as a prison sentence. At best can be a form of rehabilitation.

Community service, pays back the community, Probably just a gimmick. Court costs and overhead time checking the crooks doing mandatory good deeds might be more. But then we have to punish them somewhow

I'm not sure if this has been tried before, but how about a time consuming (multiple choice) test for deterring crimes where an offender, in order to cut prison time, has to study hard and be mentally in involved with like 1000 questions for a few hours. Fail the test? You're given a week to study and take the test again. The type of test that is so annoying that once you pass you don't want to take it again.

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#126

Post by onemoresoop »

austhrow743 wrote: post #72
nikanj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the adequate follow-through prosecution that's the problem. Fines? Can't get blood from a stone. Jailtime? The cost-benefit analysis doesn't support that, prison time is expensive and petty theft doesn't really cause that much damage. I have no solution to offer here.

Public shaming.

It would work for some but a certain subset of people don't empathize and really don't care.

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#127

Post by blacksmith_tb »

inerte wrote: post #50
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Presumably packages are generally stolen after they've been delivered? So their photo proves it was on my porch, but it doesn't disprove that someone came along and stole it shortly after it was delivered... (my camera provides that video, however).

I once got a delivery notification, and when I got home he package wasn’t there. I thought someone stole, but then I read on the delivery notes that the package was put inside the mailbox. It was 24 cans of soda and several other items. No way it was actually delivered that way. So either it wasn’t and the delivery person lied, maybe to still get the delivery as completed (and therefore paid or count against a quota)…

Ah, that makes more sense. Yes, since delivery drivers can have impossible quotas / inefficient-but-mandatory routes etc. they have been known to throw things over fences etc., requiring a photo 'on the porch' does counter that (if not the rest of the catch-22).

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#128

Post by lenocinor »

eropple wrote: post #81
cronix wrote: post #28

I haven't had any packages stolen for the last few years. We have a large "toy box" on the front porch/deck that has a padlock on it. When expecting deliveries, we just leave the lock unlocked and leave a note to put the delivery in the box and lock it. So far, so good! I can't say the same for my neighbor though. He was hit last week, and is now going to build a box. It was less than $60 to make (3/4" plywood, 2x4's…

That's a really good idea. The annoying thing in Boston is that you might have two packages from the same order (looking at you, Amazon) arrive at different times on the same day.

And that's annoying, for sure, but most of the time the box would still work though, right?

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#129

Post by tfolbrecht »

nikanj wrote: post #40
gojomo wrote: post #27

I wonder why stings/bait-items aren't used more often, when an area is facing a rash of specific kinds of crime, like bike theft, parked-car smash-and-grabs, and package theft. It's often a small number of violators – sometimes professional – who've been emboldened by early successes to scale up. So just a few stings, with adequate follow-through prosecution, could have a highly-leveraged effect on the overall rate.

It's the adequate follow-through prosecution that's the problem. Fines? Can't get blood from a stone. Jailtime? The cost-benefit analysis doesn't support that, prison time is expensive and petty theft doesn't really cause that much damage. I have no solution to offer here.

Could the police, after being baiting a thief have enough evidence to support an investigation into the individual, and get them for a felony?

Re: Amazon uses dummy parcels to catch thieves

#130

Post by eropple »

lenocinor wrote: post #128
eropple wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really good idea. The annoying thing in Boston is that you might have two packages from the same order (looking at you, Amazon) arrive at different times on the same day.

And that's annoying, for sure, but most of the time the box would still work though, right?

Well, this happened both today and yesterday, 'cause my roommates and I don't really sync up our online purchases...;)
Post reply on HN