Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#31

Post by dalbasal » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

j_m_b wrote: post #8

“There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can…

Friedman had a talent for conveying these ideas simply.

The problem with these economicist "stories," as they call them, is that people (including economists themselves) believe them too much.

Once stories like this are embedded in the way we think, we constantly see ways of interpreting the world in a reinforcing way. Every case of inefficiency is found to be an example of principal-agent problems.

Not specifically a Friedman problem or a laissez-faire problem.

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#32

Post by blattimwind » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:04 PM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #23

jki275 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military in the US is 18% of the budget. SS and medicare are something like 70%. If you want to live in a country without a military there are a bunch of them. I wouldn't personally want to live in any of them, but of course everyone is free to do as they see fit.

Switzerland has no military, it's not that bad.

Switzerland actually even has military ships. [1]

[1] Patrol boats of the Grenzwachtkorps.

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#33

Post by LarryDarrell » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #13

j_m_b wrote: post #8

“There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can…

That's why many mature governments have an office whose job it is to care about those things, e.g. [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Offi...

It's much easier to quote Milton Friedman and wave your hands, though.

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#34

Post by cascom » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:07 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #17

j_m_b wrote: post #8

“There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can…

It is a funny quote, but obviously not true. Anyone who has worked in, and for, government will tell you that: "And if I spend somebody else’s money on somebody else, I’m not concerned about how much it is, and I’m not concerned about what I get. And that’s government." Is 100% incorrect. In fact, much of the bureaucracy we have in government is used for ensuring these types of things don't happen. It's why there are…

My experience is that because we can’t trust people in government to act responsibly, we create these committees/reviews/approvals ensuring that government moves slowly and ineffectively

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#35

Post by golergka » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

adwhit wrote: post #20

j_m_b wrote: post #8

“There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can…

I’m sold, let’s get rid of the part of the government that costs the most and delivers the least. I’m talking about the military, of course.

There hasn't been a world war for two thirds of a century now, and US and their trade partners enjoy safe trade routes.

I wouldn't call it "not delivering".

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#36

Post by ptero » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #14

j_m_b wrote: post #8

“There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can…

This is a good quote and I like it, but it's funny- I feel like what this quote best demonstrates is a basic difference in conscientiousness between the Chicago school folks and the Keynes folks. If I buy a birthday present for someone, I care very much about the content of the present.

I felt the same way on first reading, but then decided that I misinterpreted "someone" to mean "someone really close to me": spouse, kids, parents, etc. This is similar to buying things for myself.

I believe in MF quote "someone" is better described as "someone you do not personally know or maybe see once". A model for that is buying a gift for a Yankee Swap party. Or for a child I do not know: something to cheer them up, but as I do not know if (s)he likes dolls or trucks I can go with a safe, generic choice, e.g., a book.

That is, I am still trying to do a good thing, but am not too worried that I will guess incorrectly.

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#37

Post by iambateman » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:10 PM UTC

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #14

j_m_b wrote: post #8

“There are four ways in which you can spend money. You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money. Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost. Then, I can…

This is a good quote and I like it, but it's funny- I feel like what this quote best demonstrates is a basic difference in conscientiousness between the Chicago school folks and the Keynes folks. If I buy a birthday present for someone, I care very much about the content of the present.

One could hypothesize that the character traits which lead someone to become a respected economist do not lend themselves to adept gift-giving.

;)

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#38

Post by sizzzzlerz » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

What you have to ask yourself is who, in the Trump crime family, is making bank off of this.

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#39

Post by isostatic » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #21

adwhit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sold, let’s get rid of the part of the government that costs the most and delivers the least. I’m talking about the military, of course.

Military in the US is 18% of the budget. SS and medicare are something like 70%. If you want to live in a country without a military there are a bunch of them. I wouldn't personally want to live in any of them, but of course everyone is free to do as they see fit.

Iceland has no military spending Ireland spends 0.4% of it's GDP on military Switzerland 0.7% Sweden 1% Finland (who have actually been invaded in living memory) 1.4%

The U.S. spent $574b on defence and $79b on veterans last year, both increased way above inflation - total of $57b. Education by comparision dropped by 14%, or $9b. Health by 18% or $15b.

The largest slice of the U.S. budget is healthcare (mainly medicare/medicaid). This cost $5,500 per citizen, despite only covering 1/3rd of the population. This is because the U.S. health care system is fundamentally broken, and costs about 3 times as much per person in europe.

Re: Government Hired a Firm for $13.6M to Hire Recruits. It Hired 2

#40

Post by exabrial » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

Government is nearly always the least effective use of a citizen's money. Huge discussion on HN a few days ago about the IRS barely making $7 for every $1 spent. Before than we discussed the astronomically comical cost of healthcare.gov.

It's good that people are demanding social change and action; the answer should bbe private charity and community leadership, as the current system just funnels money into contractors pockets.