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Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

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Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#31

Post by svantana »

pjc50 wrote: post #18
baldfat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at-will employment laws I just don't get how we just can't over turn them politically state by state in State Elections. How is this not a thing? I live in an At Will State (PA) and it pretty much sucks to have the knowledge I can be fired for any reason and sure I still can sue but I can still lose even though I am 100% in the right.

There's going to be a lot of money thrown at propaganda to convince voters that requiring employers to treat employees fairly will reduce jobs. And as soon as anyone mentions unions , it's all over. Every (right-of-centre) American knows that they're the only hardworking person in the country and the entire rest of the workforce is lazy good-for-nothings who need the constant threat of firing to achieve anything. /s

> as soon as anyone mentions unions, it's all over

Isn't there a technical solution to this? Something like an outwardly anonymous social network with "proof" of employment from LinkedIn, where you can pledge to unionize once participation reaches critical mass for your workplace. Yes laws are better, but this could be a decent workaround.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#32

Post by wpietri »

paxys wrote: post #12

> Musk “would say ‘I’ve got to fire someone today,’ and I’d say, ‘No you don’t,’ and he’d say, ‘No, no, I just do. I’ve got to fire somebody,’ ” Musk really is the asshole abusive boss who gets a pass because of his media fame. I urge anyone in a situation similar to the employees mentioned in the article to simply quit. Giving up your life and dignity for "the cause" isn't worth it. You aren't changing the world, ju…

Speaking of abusive bosses, let me recommend a favorite book:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9J0RO

It's Lundy Bancroft's, "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men". It's the single most astute thing I've ever read. The guy spent more than a decade as a counselor for abusive men, most of them ordered to him by the courts. It's clear he heard an ocean of bullshit and became very good at seeing through it.

It's targeted at domestic abuse, but his insights are so clear and well-explained that it's easy to apply the lessons elsewhere. E.g., a couple of years back my boss got pushed out, so suddenly I was being managed by his boss. I walked out of my first meeting with him wondering what the fuck had just happened; everything I said he jumped on aggressively. But the pattern rang a bell, so I thumbed through the book. He lists a variety of abuser styles, and the one called "Mr. Right" fit him perfectly. In one meeting he hit something like 2/3rds of the items in the checklist.

Had I not read that, I would have probably walked away thinking that the problem was me, even though my original boss had been happy with me and my work. Instead, I was prepared for what came next: a couple more abusive meetings and then a surprise, no-notice "layoff" where I and the other manager my boss hired were pushed out. (And where we were asked to sign a no-disparagement clause if we wanted any severance. Seeing it a further abuser-style manipulation, I passed.)

Over the years I've given away maybe 15 copies of the book, often to people who were in abusive relationships without recognizing it. If you ever even begin to wonder, I strongly recommend reading the book.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#33

Post by pjc50 »

svantana wrote: post #31
pjc50 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's going to be a lot of money thrown at propaganda to convince voters that requiring employers to treat employees fairly will reduce jobs. And as soon as anyone mentions unions , it's all over. Every (right-of-centre) American knows that they're the only hardworking person in the country and the entire rest of the workforce is lazy good-for-nothings who need the constant threat of firing to achieve anything. /s

> as soon as anyone mentions unions, it's all over Isn't there a technical solution to this? Something like an outwardly anonymous social network with "proof" of employment from LinkedIn, where you can pledge to unionize once participation reaches critical mass for your workplace. Yes laws are better, but this could be a decent workaround.

Too easy to infiltrate, too difficult to enforce participation internally. And you've got to advertise it somehow to the workforce.

I don't think it's achievable without outside help and political organisation.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#34

Post by InitialLastName »

grecy wrote: post #20
spuz wrote: post #9

One day he will catch an employee stealing, fly into a rage and fire the entire workforce. He'll lock the iron gates to the factory and sequester himself from the public eye for several decades sparking all kinds of rumours about his fate. Then one day he'll announce a competition for children to win golden tickets to visit his once grand factory and we'll finally discover the real story of Elon Musk and his Gigafact…

> Then one day he'll announce a competition for children to win golden tickets to visit his grand factory I feel like this is exactly the kind of quirky thing he'd do anyway, without all that negative stuff.

"Every car has a chance of having a winning ticket in the glove compartment"

The only problem is that then they actually have to manufacture enough cars to drive a competition like that.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#35

Post by pcunite »

None of us should aspire to emulate this way to greatness. You'll lose everything and for your reward, people will say, he was successful. If you can ever find someone who does not know you, maybe you could pretend to be different and they might like you, but you won't like yourself.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#36

Post by TomMarius »

svantana wrote: post #31
pjc50 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's going to be a lot of money thrown at propaganda to convince voters that requiring employers to treat employees fairly will reduce jobs. And as soon as anyone mentions unions , it's all over. Every (right-of-centre) American knows that they're the only hardworking person in the country and the entire rest of the workforce is lazy good-for-nothings who need the constant threat of firing to achieve anything. /s

> as soon as anyone mentions unions, it's all over Isn't there a technical solution to this? Something like an outwardly anonymous social network with "proof" of employment from LinkedIn, where you can pledge to unionize once participation reaches critical mass for your workplace. Yes laws are better, but this could be a decent workaround.

Why would laws be better? I absolutely don't see how any law could be better than something the people did themselves. Comparable - maybe, but a law is usually way more expensive in the long run and not exactly flexible - and if you were from eastern European state you would know how unions work here (they mostly don't).

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#37

Post by VBprogrammer »

RivieraKid wrote: post #29

I used to be neutral or slightly positive about Musk but this year really changed my view on him. He's a pathological liar, attention-seeker, vengeful narcissist, obsessed about his public image who's unable to handle criticism.

I wonder if he's related to Trump.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#38

Post by Graham24 »

spuz wrote: post #9

One day he will catch an employee stealing, fly into a rage and fire the entire workforce. He'll lock the iron gates to the factory and sequester himself from the public eye for several decades sparking all kinds of rumours about his fate. Then one day he'll announce a competition for children to win golden tickets to visit his once grand factory and we'll finally discover the real story of Elon Musk and his Gigafact…

I'm expecting him to announce that he's bought an old extinct hollowed out volcano and is recruiting for goons.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#39

Post by TomMarius »

pjc50 wrote: post #33
svantana wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as soon as anyone mentions unions, it's all over Isn't there a technical solution to this? Something like an outwardly anonymous social network with "proof" of employment from LinkedIn, where you can pledge to unionize once participation reaches critical mass for your workplace. Yes laws are better, but this could be a decent workaround.

Too easy to infiltrate, too difficult to enforce participation internally. And you've got to advertise it somehow to the workforce. I don't think it's achievable without outside help and political organisation.

What is not achievable? We're talking about collective bargaining, how is that not achievable without outside help and involving the government? People got it working just fine 100 years ago... Of course back then laws were not favoring corporations that much (in my country where it worked then, not the USA).

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#40

Post by InitialLastName »

wpietri wrote: post #23
taneq wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This story is a good reminder not to do this. The company will usually not return the favour, you rarely get properly rewarded for crazy hours, yet it has a major impact on your health (both mental and physical) in the long run. Not worth it. And yet it's also a perfect example of the one time it does make sense to do so, which is when you own a decent chunk of the company that you're doing it for. > No wonder thin…

I would be amazed if it were sustainable for even that long. My recollection is that it's a couple of weeks before productivity ends up back where it would be if you were just working reasonable hours. And then you rapidly descend into less and less productive states. (There used to be a great presentation with linked research about this here [1], but their website seems shaky.) I think it's an especially bad idea at…

> If a line worker makes a mistake, they will hopefully catch that within hours.

> If an executive makes a mistake, it can be months or years before the problem is obvious

To finish the parable: If an engineer makes a mistake, it might not be noticed until users start to die while operating the product.

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