Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 180 posts

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#171

Post by throwaway5752 »

JeremyNT wrote: post #165
throwaway5752 wrote: post #127

Big loss for RTP area in North Carolina which was favored to land it, but got nothing. Guess they pay for the disgraceful performance of the NC General Assembly in the past several years - at least enough that TX tax policies won out.

As a resident of the Triangle, it sure doesn't feel like a big loss to me. Do we actually benefit by handing out tax breaks to a megacorp just so it can relocate a few thousand jobs to the area? We've got our own problems related to growth already, we surely don't need to grow even faster - especially not by adding companies that effectively contribute nothing back financially to support all the needed infrastructure…

I think so. More jobs, higher salaries, higher overall tax receipts, halo job creation... all of that makes for more money to improve infrastructure. There's a lot that I could say about this more specifically, but I will leave it at, yes, I think this would have been good for the Triangle.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#172

Post by bogomipz »

kiallmacinnes wrote: post #169
bogomipz wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"But .. What on earth does that have to do with what amounts to giving a quantity discount to large employers?" It's mostly certainly not a "quantity discount." These corporation aren't "buying" anything from these cities. If Apple comes in sets up shop on 100 acre campus in your town and gets tax breaks to do so then your town forfeits the equivalent tax revenue another company would have paid for the same parcel o…

> It's mostly certainly not a "quantity discount." These corporation aren't "buying" anything from these cities. The city is selling its land (in quantity) and talent pool (in quantity), and is giving a tax break (a discount). > If Apple comes in sets up shop on 100 acre campus in your town and gets tax breaks to do so then your town forfeits the equivalent tax revenue another company would have paid for the same par…

>"The city is selling its land (in quantity) and talent pool"

No the city is not selling land. Where in that article is it stated that Austin is selling Apple land? The city isn't "selling" it's talent pool. Companies will always gravitate towards where there's a steady supply of talent.

>If Bestbuy sells Microsoft 1000 laptops at a 30% discount"

Yeah your analogy is absurd, taxes are a "recurring" revenue stream for a city. It's not at all similar to a single retail transaction.

>"You just can't look at a discount and naively equate that"

It's not a "discount", there are no goods being sold. Future recurring revenue is being forfeited. And when there's a future budgetary short fall(and there alway is) it will be made up by the individual tax payer.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#173

Post by perfmode »

rayiner wrote: post #65
perfmode wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations don’t have to physically move when they move. They just file paperwork elsewhere.

That's not really true. You can't just decide to be an Irish company if you have no presence in Ireland. The wave of corporate inversions in the U.S. was accompanied by lots of companies moving their headquarters (and their top executives) to Switzerland, the U.K., etc.

Tim Cook doesn't need to live in Ireland to benefit from its tax code.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#174

Post by rayiner »

perfmode wrote: post #173
rayiner wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true. You can't just decide to be an Irish company if you have no presence in Ireland. The wave of corporate inversions in the U.S. was accompanied by lots of companies moving their headquarters (and their top executives) to Switzerland, the U.K., etc.

Tim Cook doesn't need to live in Ireland to benefit from its tax code.

Income from capital gains is taxed at the rate of where the person lives. Tim Cook is a great example: it was reported that one of his recent bonuses was taxed at 50%.

Not that many people, even ones who make a lot of money, can take advantage of various tax avoidance measures. (That’s why e.g. getting rid of the preferential treatment of capital gains would raise less tax money than getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction.) CEOs mostly cannot, unless they run investment companies.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#175

Post by dmh2000 »

projectramo wrote: post #122
kod wrote: post #66

Their campus location is so far north, it's more like south Dallas than Austin.

Do you know where it is? I can't find any info on the exact location. I assumed somewhere near Round Rock for the proximity to the old tech workforce but that was just a guess.

my source says intersection of Dallas Drive and Parmer Lane

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#176

Post by perfmode »

rayiner wrote: post #174
perfmode wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Cook doesn't need to live in Ireland to benefit from its tax code.

Income from capital gains is taxed at the rate of where the person lives. Tim Cook is a great example: it was reported that one of his recent bonuses was taxed at 50%. Not that many people, even ones who make a lot of money, can take advantage of various tax avoidance measures. (That’s why e.g. getting rid of the preferential treatment of capital gains would raise less tax money than getting rid of the mortgage inter…

My point is that Apple can take advantage of Ireland for tax purposes but Tim Cook doesn’t need to live in Ireland. The corporation enjoys benefits not conferred to people. This is why there is consternation and conflict around Apple’s repatriation of capital.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#177

Post by purple_ducks »

kalleboo wrote: post #81
christopherwxyz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one state didn't offer a tax break, then another would and win the business. There are 50 states, and most of them compete for businesses with tax incentives fairly competitively.

This is why the EU has laws against this kind of race to the bottom between nations

> This is why the EU has laws against this kind of race to the bottom between nations

No, it doesn't.

Every country in EU sets it's own corporate, sales & income tax rates. as well as _EVERY_ other rate.

Every country in the EU can & does offer incentives & future tax payment agreements to companies who meet certain conditions. These are not inter-EU agreements nor do they need prior approval by any EU establishment.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#178

Post by bryanlarsen »

briandear wrote: post #136
bryanlarsen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge cost to the whole community, if by the "whole community" you mean the entire US. Let's say that Apple pays municipal tax of $X-$Y to Austin because of incentive $Y instead of $X to Denver (for example) Then Denver loses $X while Austin gains $X-$Y and Apple gains $Y. Sure, the Denver loss is only theoretical but Apple has to build somewhere so American municipal taxpayers lose as a group. A "race to the b…

Actually Denver doesn’t lose anything. The loss isn’t even theoretical. It’s like saying I lost billions on Apple stock I didn’t buy. That just makes no sense. You could also, using your theoretical logic, say that Berlin lost money too. Or Marseille. Or Dubai. Apple could have built new facilities literally anywhere they wanted. So should the international government pass a law against the US having lower taxes than…

Denver didn't lose. America did. You know full well they weren't going to build anywhere outside of the US.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#179

Post by InitialLastName »

moorhosj wrote: post #129
InitialLastName wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit lost. What major sports franchise is Atlanta adding? Looking at [0], I see new(ish) soccer, Overwatch and arena football teams, but none of those are really among the "big money" sports in the US, nor do any of those require the sort of support from the city/state that, say, a new NFL stadium would require. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_in_Atlanta

The new Atlanta soccer team, Atlanta United, actually plays in the new NFL stadium that the state spent $1.6 billion to build [1]. Average attendance was 53,000 for Atlanta United this year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Stadium

I'm not deeply familiar with the history, but I assume that the stadium was mostly built to support the Falcons? What are their attendance numbers?

Also, per the same article, the stadium's nominal capacity for soccer is 41K, so average attendance of 53k is pretty damn good.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#180

Post by willfiveash »

AnthonBerg wrote: post #140
dmode wrote: post #138

So blue cities and states continue to become richer and income inequality will continue to grow. Austin, Seattle, San Diego, LA, NYC.. unbelievable Also, kind of disappointing how low the job numbers are. 5000 in Austin over the next several years and hundreds for other areas. In contrast, Amazon announced 20K in VA and NYC. This tells me that Cupertino will continue to grow

Could it possibly it have more to do with other correlated demographic attributes of those states, such as education level or age or quality of life, rather than the "blueness" or "redness" itself?

Good point. As a long time (lived here since 1979) Austin resident I can tell you that it's a lot of fun to live here, in particular for someone in their 20's or 30's. There are a bunch of live music clubs, several large music festivals, SXSW, lakes and the Hill Country for biking, rivers to tube on, etc... On top of this the University of Texas main campus (~50K students) is located here and there are other universities in addition. This city is a magnet in Texas and surrounding states for tech talent unlike say, Waco because people want to live here.
Post reply on HN