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Robinhood launches 3% checking account

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Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#511
post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a difference? Last time I checked, my debit card offered the same protections my credits cards do.

The main difference is that if someone steals your debit card info and goes on a spending spree, that money is gone from your account until the fraud folks at your bank can deal with it. This may result in overdrafts from other automatic payments or not being able to pay for things you need, until the money is restored to your account.

I used a debit card to pay for dinner. Merchant accidentally charged me 15 times. Noticed the next day - called bank. '7-10 business days to resolve', or I could go get the merchant to refund it (which I did immediately). That money came directly out of my checking account, and was 'gone', functionally until I got them to credit it back.

Same thing happens on my credit card: the credit card company floats the missing cash for at least 30 days, at no loss to me while it 'gets worked out'.

And that's with everybody (merchant, bank, etc.) agreeing it was an accident. If it was actually fraudulent, I dunno how long it'd take...

Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#512
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your theory, that every single other financial institution has willingly taken on a bunch of expenses they don't need to? This comment just reinforces my feeling that Robinhood's business model is to extract money from credulous customers who think they are too cool for regular banks.

Most large banks have thousands of employees, tons of retail locations, massive fraud exposure, and overbuilt legacy infrastructure. For example Chase has over 10 banks within blocks of each other in downtown Chicago.

> Most large banks have thousands of employees

Hundreds of thousands, actually.

Wells Fargo had 262,700 employees in 2017. Bank of America, Chase, Citi - all had over 200,000 employees that same year.

These numbers have only gone up since then.

Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Schwab's checking account product because it's highly functional. But, I don't think that it has mass-market appeal. It appeals to a rational buyer, not an emotional one. The opportunity here for a startup bank is to replace credit card spending in the USA. The potential earnings are huge if you can get consumers to spend on a debit card instead of a credit card (because the rake is higher). To make a checking…

> I love Schwab's checking account product because it's highly functional. But, I don't think that it has mass-market appeal. It appeals to a rational buyer, not an emotional one. Isn't that the wrong perspective on a financial product? I agree that good design is important, to a degree. Once a certain level is hit, you're not going to gain/lose very many customers based upon the UI. I don't think anyone should favor…

By "emotional" vs. "rational" the parent is probably referring to the type of investor/trader that would use a Schwab account, meaning someone who understands the risks they are taking on and won't flinch when the market goes sideways. Nothing to do with UI or product design.

Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a difference? Last time I checked, my debit card offered the same protections my credits cards do.

In addition to what the other commenter said, I think in practice, doing a chargeback is a lot less painful than calling you your bank and asking for your money back. Of course definitely depends on bank and credit card issuer.

Amex does chargebacks in 2 clicks. WAY easier.

Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are never getting returns for free Sure, but you can buy US treasury bills, and then your risk is "lose some money if the US government defaults", which is very low. We all live every day with risks far greater than that risk level. If you look at the current treasury yields, they are very close to 3%. Add the interchange revenue, and RobinHood can pull a 3% guarantee while still making a (narrow) profit. If tr…

> Sure, but you can buy US treasury bills, and then your risk is "lose some money if the US government defaults", which is very low. There are all kinds of other risks associated with buying US treasury bills besides the US government defaulting, which is why you get paid - but you're right, the risk is low so you get paid a low amount. You have opportunity costs during the time that your money is locked up in treasu…

Losing money on investments of client funds was how MF Global went broke, for example.

Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#516

I just spent 3 months in London, and it's crazy how Monzo seems to have taken the market. Almost everybody seems to be paying with a Monzo card, regardless of age. Asking around, I consistently heard that Monzo's competitors like Revolut are going to be a future case study in scaling before great product/market fit. I don't know how many people have Revolut accounts, but nobody seems to be using their cards in public…

I wouldn't be surprised given their investor docs mentioning America, their £1bn valuation, and their current growth rate, if Monzo launched in the US in the next 12-18 months.

They are a definite contender for your list.

Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metacomment: geeks who believe they have outmathed a financial firm should ask themselves "Are financial firms likely to be bad at math?" and "Are financial firms incapable of hiring their own geeks?" Ah yes, because as 2000, 2008, and 2019 have shown us, financial firms are infallible when it comes to maths and economics.

Also, if you've read any of the stories about digitization in financial firms, they are totally incapable of hiring their own geeks because it would displace very, very rich people who would have to do the hiring.

Do you have a link to any of those stories? My experience with financial firms is completely contrary to what you're saying here.

Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are never getting returns for free Sure, but you can buy US treasury bills, and then your risk is "lose some money if the US government defaults", which is very low. We all live every day with risks far greater than that risk level. If you look at the current treasury yields, they are very close to 3%. Add the interchange revenue, and RobinHood can pull a 3% guarantee while still making a (narrow) profit. If tr…

> Sure, but you can buy US treasury bills, and then your risk is "lose some money if the US government defaults", which is very low. There are all kinds of other risks associated with buying US treasury bills besides the US government defaulting, which is why you get paid - but you're right, the risk is low so you get paid a low amount. You have opportunity costs during the time that your money is locked up in treasu…

> You also incur some inflation risk.

Every dollar-denominated investment incurs inflation risk, including any sort of cash account like a dollar saving/checking account.

> If you're investing in the treasuries via an ETF or via a broker, you are incurring additional counterparty risk.

That counterparty risk is exactly what SIPC insures.

> Investing in a 10 or 20 year bond is obviously different than having a checking account which can be emptied at any time without penalty and without having to go to the market to find a buyer, so there's a large maturity mismatch that's being incurred by your counterparty, RobinHood

But RobinHood can make certain reasonably safe assumptions about the flow of capital into their various accounts, and adjust based on that.

For example, while they're growing, every withdrawal will be matched by a great amount of deposits. So they'll always have the cash in hand to satisfy withdrawals.

Of course, if they ever stop growing, that assumption no longer holds. But the very nature of startups is to bet on growth, even at the risk of potential bust (since failing to grow rapidly means failure).

> The part where they pick up the pieces could take weeks or months; if you need the cash before then, you're in trouble. If you can afford to wait, you're right, no big deal. I don't expect RobinHood to go bankrupt tomorrow, but if they were wiped out as part of a wider financial crisis, it's possible that under those conditions you'll need access to your cash quicker than you think.

Absolutely. I would keep an emergency fund in an FDIC-insured bank account somewhere else.

Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#519
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's standard to talk in annualized interest rates to make simple comparisons between accounts. A daily interest rate of 0.008 % will compound up to just over 3 % of effective annual rate.

If the daily interest rate is 0.008 then the annualized rate is 2.92%, not 3%. The standard is to multiply by the number of periods, not to take compounding into the calculation.

That's true of the nominal rate. A nominal 3% divides to an effective daily rate of 0.0082 %. But the effective rate is (1 + Nominal Rate / n)n - 1 or just over 3.2%.

Re: Robinhood launches 3% checking account

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's higher than index funds returns as of late.

Holding cash had higher returns than index funds over the last 6 months. That's not a high bar when the market is going down. VTI is below where it was 12 months ago.

I bought a decent chunk of VTI @ 133.00 this week, glad I had some roth contributions left
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