Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#11

Post by Cenk » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

fusl wrote: post #2

As far as everything on the internet tells me, GDPR was made for exactly this reason, to prevent this kind of data collecting without the users consent. But what is happening instead is that small companies, starrups, etc. are getting fucked over by the sheer amount of "rules" they have to follow and implement while large companies can get away with collecting everything and anything, leaking personal user data all o…

It’s too early to tell wether large companies will be able to get away with this stuff under GDPR.

If your small company is "getting fucked over" because if privacy laws, you’re doing something shady in the first place.

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#12

Post by Wowfunhappy » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:24 PM UTC

Justsignedup wrote: post #7

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR really should only apply to companies beyond a certain size. Or at least, the requirements for small companies should be less stringent.

That would be exploited SO FAST! Embed my 1-person company's widget. I will collect everything and send it to big boys. Same way as you funnel money through a shell corp to avoid taxes.

In the US, we have rules to stop this sort of thing for e.g. background check data. If you collect personally identifiable information from a third party, it's the same as if you collected it yourself.

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#13

Post by DanBC » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:24 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #5

fusl wrote: post #2

As far as everything on the internet tells me, GDPR was made for exactly this reason, to prevent this kind of data collecting without the users consent. But what is happening instead is that small companies, starrups, etc. are getting fucked over by the sheer amount of "rules" they have to follow and implement while large companies can get away with collecting everything and anything, leaking personal user data all o…

GDPR really should only apply to companies beyond a certain size. Or at least, the requirements for small companies should be less stringent.

The requirements for small companies are less stringent.

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#14

Post by Angostura » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

fusl wrote: post #2

As far as everything on the internet tells me, GDPR was made for exactly this reason, to prevent this kind of data collecting without the users consent. But what is happening instead is that small companies, starrups, etc. are getting fucked over by the sheer amount of "rules" they have to follow and implement while large companies can get away with collecting everything and anything, leaking personal user data all o…

> Conclusion: GDPR was made to help monopolies grow even larger and prevent smaller companies/start-ups from ever growing more than just a little bit. Change my mind?

The conclusion you should be coming to is that if Microsoft is doing this they will be hauled over the coals in a really quite painful way. Not this month or next, because the GDPR enforcers are snowed under at the moment.

As for the “rules” small businesses have to follow to be compliant, for the most part I strongly believe that they just codify the things people should be doing anyway: Thinking about how you collect users data, why you need it; how long you keep it for; how you secure it; who you pass it to - how they use it.

It’s not rocket science

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#15

Post by Cenk » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #14

fusl wrote: post #2

As far as everything on the internet tells me, GDPR was made for exactly this reason, to prevent this kind of data collecting without the users consent. But what is happening instead is that small companies, starrups, etc. are getting fucked over by the sheer amount of "rules" they have to follow and implement while large companies can get away with collecting everything and anything, leaking personal user data all o…

> Conclusion: GDPR was made to help monopolies grow even larger and prevent smaller companies/start-ups from ever growing more than just a little bit. Change my mind? The conclusion you should be coming to is that if Microsoft is doing this they will be hauled over the coals in a really quite painful way. Not this month or next, because the GDPR enforcers are snowed under at the moment. As for the “rules” small busin…

> Thinking about how you collect users data, why you need it; how long you keep it for; how you secure it; who you pass it to - how they use it.

Yes – Plus how you tell the people who’s data you are collecting about this.

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#16

Post by fromthestart » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

So Windows is sending browsed URLs to Microsoft? What exactly is "data about recently opened websites?" What data specifically?

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#17

Post by criddell » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #5

fusl wrote: post #2

As far as everything on the internet tells me, GDPR was made for exactly this reason, to prevent this kind of data collecting without the users consent. But what is happening instead is that small companies, starrups, etc. are getting fucked over by the sheer amount of "rules" they have to follow and implement while large companies can get away with collecting everything and anything, leaking personal user data all o…

GDPR really should only apply to companies beyond a certain size. Or at least, the requirements for small companies should be less stringent.

Why should small companies be able to collect user data without consent?

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#18

Post by conanthe » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

fusl wrote: post #2

As far as everything on the internet tells me, GDPR was made for exactly this reason, to prevent this kind of data collecting without the users consent. But what is happening instead is that small companies, starrups, etc. are getting fucked over by the sheer amount of "rules" they have to follow and implement while large companies can get away with collecting everything and anything, leaking personal user data all o…

[flagged]

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#19

Post by setquk » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

fusl wrote: post #2

As far as everything on the internet tells me, GDPR was made for exactly this reason, to prevent this kind of data collecting without the users consent. But what is happening instead is that small companies, starrups, etc. are getting fucked over by the sheer amount of "rules" they have to follow and implement while large companies can get away with collecting everything and anything, leaking personal user data all o…

So it's ok for small companies to leak personal data?

Doctors' surgeries are small companies here in the UK.

The issue here is that literally every company across the world doesn't give a crap past the end of their nose and has abysmal data protection policies in place because it affects the bottom line. They introduced local legislation to help this and a few large fish got fined and that was it. Ultimately it wasn't worth doing anything about it because it wasn't an operational risk.

GDPR is about making it a major operational risk to do a shitty job. The rules should be the same for every company and the fines proportional, which they are.

The "sheer amount of rules" isn't a lot really and you owe it to your customers.

Conclusion: most of the anti-GDPR whiners are worried about spending on data protection and training because it hurts the bottom line. Change my mind?

Re: Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to?

#20

Post by setquk » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

blub wrote: post #8

Another nail in the coffin of MS telemetry apologists. Really, MS is freaking evil when it comes to this stuff. Wonder which asshole greenlighted this huge telemetry push. Must have been sanctioned from the very top.

Names..

Satya Nadella is directly responsible here. There has been no response from him on petitions about it. Google the various sources:

Ben Evans is responsible for enforcing the state of affairs on .Net core at least. https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093

Joey Ailleo, Powershell PM said this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18629942

"I'm a huge privacy advocate, but telemetry doesn't have to be a dirty word. With PowerShell Core, we went through an RFC process to define our telemetry goals and implementation[1], we publish our data to a public dashboard[2], and all of the telemetry source code is out there in the open[3]. Our telemetry enables to help drive prioritization and decisions around platform/OS usage, and disabling it as simple as setting an environment variable[4]."

That's basically MSFT policy:

1. Telemetry is good for you

2. We do X, Y, Z (but forget to mention the times they got it wrong like the environment variable didn't work on Debian packages they built for .net core).

3. Default is opt out, if you can (windows 10 pro has no opt out option).

4. Stick fingers in ears.

MSFT, you can go to hell at this point. This is just disrespecting and abusing your customers. I will ALWAYS put a privacy respecting vendor at the top of the list.