Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#251

Post by mcv » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 10:39 AM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #223

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both, and usually significantly. Last I checked it was nearly twice as lucrative to be a Ruby-on-rails developer than an embedded engineer. Embedded also attracts a certain type of engineer, usually very smart and able to manage extreme complexity with attention to detail but at the cost of anything resembling readable, let alone maintainable, software. The fact that anything at all works in the modern world is amazi…

"Embedded also attracts a certain type of engineer, usually very smart and able to manage extreme complexity with attention to detail but at the cost of anything resembling readable, let alone maintainable, software. " Heaven for generalists that always love doing new kinds of things. Once I learned about it, I knew I probably should've done embedded instead of security research. Of course, now there's significant in…

  > Heaven for generalists that always love doing new kinds of things.

Really? That's me. I'm in web development, and I've always felt that embedded was far too specialised for me.

Though I do prefer readable, maintainable code.

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#252

Post by mcv » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 10:50 AM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #143

ezoe wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why is that the pay is not so high? Manufacturing the hardware requires a lot of capitol to begin with. Why these SSD vendors can't afford the high salary to lure the top talents?

Hardware is a ruthlessly competitive business and profit margins are very thin.

Even so, I'd imagine more reliable SSDs would be able to fetch a higher price.

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#253

Post by mcv » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 10:52 AM UTC

niftich wrote: post #21

Not that spinning HDDs are really any different, but SSDs are a perfect example of an entire computer that you attach to yours, and speak with through one of the (many) storage-oriented protocols. The device itself is a black box, and complex transformations take place between the physical persistence of the data and the logical structures that are exchanged on the wire. There are many layers of indirection, and many…

Even so, if SSDs are an entire computer on their own, could that computer at least have the decency to provide some helpful logging?

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#254

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 11:35 AM UTC

howard941 wrote: post #127

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both, and usually significantly. Last I checked it was nearly twice as lucrative to be a Ruby-on-rails developer than an embedded engineer. Embedded also attracts a certain type of engineer, usually very smart and able to manage extreme complexity with attention to detail but at the cost of anything resembling readable, let alone maintainable, software. The fact that anything at all works in the modern world is amazi…

So $SALT_MINE, a highly profitable privately held Fortune 500 just decided to revamp their pay scales. They've now decided that they want to be at the 50 percentile remuneration-wise in the durable goods sector. That is the white goods sector, washing machines and such. I predict we will lose all of our engineers - embedded dudes included.

[deleted]

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#255

Post by chrisbennet » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 11:36 AM UTC

howard941 wrote: post #127

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both, and usually significantly. Last I checked it was nearly twice as lucrative to be a Ruby-on-rails developer than an embedded engineer. Embedded also attracts a certain type of engineer, usually very smart and able to manage extreme complexity with attention to detail but at the cost of anything resembling readable, let alone maintainable, software. The fact that anything at all works in the modern world is amazi…

So $SALT_MINE, a highly profitable privately held Fortune 500 just decided to revamp their pay scales. They've now decided that they want to be at the 50 percentile remuneration-wise in the durable goods sector. That is the white goods sector, washing machines and such. I predict we will lose all of our engineers - embedded dudes included.

Yeah, but their numbers will look good for a year or two and by then they (CEO, etc) will have moved on to another company before things crash.

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#256

Post by xyzzy_plugh » Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

Rinzler89 wrote: post #155

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both, and usually significantly. Last I checked it was nearly twice as lucrative to be a Ruby-on-rails developer than an embedded engineer. Embedded also attracts a certain type of engineer, usually very smart and able to manage extreme complexity with attention to detail but at the cost of anything resembling readable, let alone maintainable, software. The fact that anything at all works in the modern world is amazi…

May I ask how did you manage to leave the embedded world and where did you go after? I'm asking since after investing 6 years into this field, which I love, and jumping a couple of companies I realized the market(Europe) is really bad for this gig. Not only is our work highly challenging it's also poorly paid while at the same time our CEO is crying to the local press they can't find devs(to work for peanuts) and is…

I just went to do something else. I'm definitely a generalist, and now work mostly with "big" data.

I had zero embedded experience when I started doing embedded dev, and then I had zero data experience -- but a surprising amount of general experience is applicable!

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#257

Post by loeg » Fri, Dec 14, 2018, 4:00 AM UTC

Serow225 wrote: post #230

loeg wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similarly the tracks don't have to be perfectly round or concentric They have to be pretty dang close at 7200+ rpm.

Nope. Since a long time, tracks are virtual (array of raw track IDs as a function of sector ID when the arm is held "constant" and averaged for X thousand RPMs as part of the per-drive firmware Calibration at the factory).

How does the second sentence produce the conclusion "nope?" If the arm is held "constant" and the platter is spinning at 7200rpm, it's going to trace something very close to a perfect circle.

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#258

Post by godzillabrennus » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 1:53 AM UTC

brokenmachine wrote: post #188

godzillabrennus wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that identified a bug in a Drobo firmware once and was offered a job on the spot I think the problem with attracting talent is two fold. The first problem is really two parts, not only is it rare to find people who have passion for storage related technologies but very few will gain exposure to these technologies to develop that passion. Kids don't routinely grow up with a SAN in the house. They do tend to…

>As someone that identified a bug in a Drobo firmware once and was offered a job on the spot Just curious how you did that. Did you disassemble their firmware?

It's been about 5+ years at this point so I don't recall all of the details. I can recall that they offered me a job after I pointed out the bug. From what I recall, I politely declined but I helped them test a beta firmware for a while.