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Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

nhs.uk

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Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#61

Post by anongraddebt »

FWIW, I told a good friend to get her dementia-diagnosed father on a schedule of daily Dual N-Back training using open source programs (e.g. Brainworkshop). She asked his neurologist how effective this would be and he basically said, "it's the only cognitive training that could do anything."

Not only is Dual N-Back a great mental workout, but it will also put you to sleep pretty quickly if you set the parameters such that the task is sufficiently taxing. Here's one that should make you tired within 15-20 mins. if you're just starting out:

(1) Set N-Back to 3 (for every category of items that you have to remember, you are trying to remember the repeats in a string that have two items in between)

(2) Set number of item categories to 3 (e.g. Shapes, Sounds, Spatial/Placement, and Colors)

(3) Up the baseline 'randomness' factor or level of pattern obscurity.

I cannot overstate how important (2) is. So many people in the N-Back community care about maxing out (1). IMHO, the real benefits come when you get (2) maxed out while keeping an N-Back of 3. THEN, work your way to up to higher levels of N-Back.

You have a one in a billion short-term memory capacity and don't feel sleepy yet? Okay, throw in some multiple mentalism exercises while literally in the middle of doing the N-Back training. Ex.: visually 'recite' the alphabet backwards in your head with the letters being in mirror image format (so from 'behind').

You'll find it impoasible to get even remotely close to 80% accuracy if you turn the various parameters up high enough, and you'll have an easy way of falling asleep.

Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#62

Post by kgwgk »

RyanOD wrote: post #57
docbrown wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The researchers lost touch with 13 people, while 57 people died and 332 declined to take part." This is one of the major downsides to longitudinal studies— people are unpredictable.

I wonder if we'll see that change with the proliferation of communication across so many mediums. Between mail, email, texting, voice, social media, etc. staying in touch with a cohort might be much easier and more sustainable.

They lost touch with 2.6% of the participants. There is not much room for improvement there.

Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#63

Post by jodrellblank »

amelius wrote: post #9
tannerc wrote: post #4

This is a fascinating share, if not for the results—"None of the measures of intellectual engagement was linked to the speed of decline of people's mental abilities over time"—but for the study itself. "Many people also dropped out of the study. Only 96 of the 498 people recruited took part in the last round of testing. The researchers lost touch with 13 people, while 57 people died and 332 declined to take part." Do…

You can ask the same question about the NHS.

You mean "Does the NHS often reach the front page of HN?"?

.. I don't get it, why would you ask that?

Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#64

Post by jodrellblank »

ekianjo wrote: post #14
stochastic_monk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn’t heard that body fat composition affected Alzheimer’s risk. Out of curiosity, do you have a reference?

Body fat is a risk for multiple disease. The general idea is that whenever viruses enter the adipose tissue they are hard to reach by the immune system. We dont really understand yet what causes Alzheimer but now there is suspicion of a viral link.

internet articles point fingers at long term insulin resistance, e.g. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/20160...

the receptors responsible for escorting insulin across the blood-brain barrier can become resistant to insulin, restricting the amount of insulin allowed into the brain. While most brain cells don’t require insulin in order to absorb glucose, they do require insulin in order to process glucose. [..] Despite swimming in a sea of glucose, brain cells in people with insulin resistance literally begin starving to death. [..] Which brain cells go first? The hippocampus is the brain's memory center. Hippocampal cells require so much energy to do their important work that they often need extra boosts of glucose. While insulin is not required to let a normal amount of glucose into the hippocampus, these special glucose surges do require insulin, making the hippocampus particularly sensitive to insulin deficits. This explains why declining memory is one of the earliest signs of Alzheimer’s, despite the fact that Alzheimer’s Disease eventually destroys the whole brain.

researchers have discovered that Alzheimer’s Disease is preceded by DECADES of gradually worsening glucose hypometabolism.

2012 study showed that a low-carbohydrate high-fat diet improved memory in people with “Mild Cognitive Impairment” (Pre-Alzheimer’s Disease) in only six weeks.

https://coconutketones.com/ - Dr Mary Newport's work on coconut oil and low carb diet with her husband with early onset alzheimers and dementia, intended to provide an alternative ketone source of fuel for the brain instead of glucose.

Grain and sugar elimination: that’s huge, because it’s anti-inflammatory. A big driver of cognitive decline and dementia is inflammation. By going grain-free sugar-free we drop inflammation dramatically. If you were to track inflammatory measures like C-reactive protein or interleukin-6 or tumor necrosis factor (TNFα) or other measures, you would see them drop precipitously, as inflammation recedes, and risk for Alzheimer’s with it. - https://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2017/11/preventing-cognitive-...

Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#65

Post by pas »

hndamien wrote: post #7
TrainedMonkey wrote: post #3

But exercise does: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20160324/Exercise-slows-do...

My armchair analysis suspects that it is chemicals like cortisol will degrade the brain over time, while dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin will help preserve it. So stress and anxiety bad, exercise good.

cortisol? why not glutamate ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity

Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#66

Post by weego »

p1necone wrote: post #30

Seems to me that even if it didn't slow down the "rate" of mental decline, starting from a higher point because of "brain training" for want of a better term would still be good, no?

That makes the assumption that any kind of brain training raises the bar in a way that mental decline then diminishes. Overall mental degeneration could be a parallel process to cognitive ability that 'blocks' its application. Until all vectors are tested and analysed any assumption is as right or wrong as any other.

Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#67

Post by sethrin »

anongraddebt wrote: post #61

FWIW, I told a good friend to get her dementia-diagnosed father on a schedule of daily Dual N-Back training using open source programs (e.g. Brainworkshop). She asked his neurologist how effective this would be and he basically said, "it's the only cognitive training that could do anything." Not only is Dual N-Back a great mental workout, but it will also put you to sleep pretty quickly if you set the parameters such…

That seems like quite a strong claim. This would need to be supported by extraordinary empirical evidence. It's rather difficult for us to independently verify your friend's neurologist's word. Do you perhaps have some scientific studies to hand which might demonstrate the efficacy of this treatment?

Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#68

Post by mjfl »

danieltillett wrote: post #44
mjfl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got my genes sequenced recently and it turns out I have a mutant gene that predisposes me to Alzheimers - APOE e4. it's a cholesterol shuttling gene! Very important to keep low fat, it effects your entire body.

It is not really a mutant gene, just one of the variant genes found in the human population. Unfortunately the APOE4 variant is rather bad to have and a major risk factor for Alzheimers. Are you homo or heterozygous for E4?

heterozygous

Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#69

Post by jspash »

As an aside, the NHS website is an absolute joy to use. From the legibility of the type to the navigation, also the style of writing is generally top notch IMHO.

Regarding the design, I remember when Google products gave me a similar feeling. Sadly, with "Material Design" usability has sunk to some weird place where I continually ask "where do i click? what CAN i click? stop sliding things around!" in frustration.

Apologies for going off topic (and the mini rant).

Re: Puzzle-solving 'doesn't slow down mental decline in older people'

#70

Post by amelius »

jodrellblank wrote: post #63
amelius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can ask the same question about the NHS.

You mean "Does the NHS often reach the front page of HN?"? .. I don't get it, why would you ask that?

Comment was about the research reaching the news section of the NHS.
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