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An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

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Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#81

Post by jldupinet »

dkrich wrote: post #73

I feel like I’m alone in asking this but does personal responsibility play no part in this? She starts by admitting that she voluntarily signaled to these platforms that she was pregnant. They are ad platforms. She then goes on to admit that she continued to go back on the platforms after and then blames them for showing ads she herself engaged with at one point! I don’t think anyone would ever wish someone grieving…

but she did said that she tried to stop ads by selecting "Not interested" without much success

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#82

Post by macleginn »

mc32 wrote: post #35
40acres wrote: post #13

I've been really interested in a 'digital agent' model for a while now. Some profile, and/or grand set of settings that apply to all my interactions online. I interface with way too many platforms online to keep track of, this can lead to unwanted and annoying targeting similar to (but obviously on a much lesser scale) to this mother. I recently bought a shaving kit for my future brother-in-law for Christmas, I looke…

You know things are broken when after you buy things you begin to get ads for the very thing you just bought. Now, you could forgive one ad network not knowing, but when you get served up ads by the people who know (have a record of the transaction) you bought something, you know something’s not working the way it should, optimally.

This works the same way in Spotify’s recommender system. It keeps recommending you records you not only have already listened to a couple of times, but also added to your library and even made available offline. This is so fixable.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#83

Post by PavlovsCat »

GuiA wrote: post #44
jrockway wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the difference between Banksy having himself plastered all over the media for shredding his artwork versus Colgate telling me to buy their toothpaste. Banksy understands and uses advertising better than anyone.

Well, that was 14 years ago. It's hard to remain on your outraged and righteous path when you start getting fat checks for it (see also Black Mirror s1e2, "Fifteen Million Merits").

The ending of the Black Mirror episode doesn't take away from the "speech" that comes before that, though:

> You pull a face, and poke it towards the stage, and we lah-di-dah, we sing and dance and tumble around. And all you see up here, it's not people, you don't see people up here, it's all fodder. And the faker the fodder, the more you love it, because fake fodder's the only thing that works any more. It's all that we can stomach. [..] Fuck you all for thinking the one thing I came close to never meant anything. For oozing around it and crushing it into a bone, into a joke. One more ugly joke in a kingdom of millions.

In my mind, the last person to blame is the one who at least made an attempt to be more, who made no "mistake" other than being one human -- facing millions who just watch -- and being oozed around and crushed eventually. Selling out will never suck as much as people, who never even had what another person sold out, being smug about someone selling out. It's like they think it vindicates them for not even having tried.

(not that I read your comment as what I'm complaining about, it's a general observation. Freebird!)

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#84

Post by patmcguire »

mc32 wrote: post #35
40acres wrote: post #13

I've been really interested in a 'digital agent' model for a while now. Some profile, and/or grand set of settings that apply to all my interactions online. I interface with way too many platforms online to keep track of, this can lead to unwanted and annoying targeting similar to (but obviously on a much lesser scale) to this mother. I recently bought a shaving kit for my future brother-in-law for Christmas, I looke…

You know things are broken when after you buy things you begin to get ads for the very thing you just bought. Now, you could forgive one ad network not knowing, but when you get served up ads by the people who know (have a record of the transaction) you bought something, you know something’s not working the way it should, optimally.

I see this sentiment a lot, but I think it probably does make financial sense to show you ads for a thing you already bought. There are often a few whales out there who are buying one of a thing to sample and then might later buy hundreds or thousands.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#85

Post by colmvp »

dannykwells wrote: post #12

I think it's things like this that will ultimately bring the downfall of the tech giants - the fact that even with "machine learning", the quality if the experience is still so low. They built an addictive product in the beginning, but now all of them are starting to make us feel nauseous, which is one of the fastest ways to break an addiction. It's true here for social media (in spades), but it's true with Amazon (s…

I remain skeptical that it'll make a dent, honestly.

People will still use Twitter, Facebook, Google, Netflix, Amazon, etc. because they provide enough convenience and positive experiences that outweigh the perceived negatives.

I mean people know about the negatives of companies that use sweat shops, child labour, or who employ people in horrific working conditions, and yet these corporations are still very much the giants in their field.

You have companies who source ingredients from companies that don't have great living conditions for livestock, and they're still in business.

The tech giants will remain tech giants because as much as people will complain about it, they won't abstain. They won't stop using their phones, their websites, their apps, their search engines, their e-mail... because it's all too hard to give up.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#86

Post by curiousgal »

Perseids wrote: post #70

I'm someone saddened that the discussion here focuses only on what the advertiser (/ tech companies) should have done and leaves out the aspect of how we have failed to bring the obvious solution to the harmed individual: Install an adblocker at the first sign of trouble. How come she was so morally obliged to watch any ads in the first place instead of engaging in basic self defense? Or if the answer is technologica…

Precisely. Whenever I help a friend with their computer issues I am appalled by the user experience on the internet without and ad blocker, so it's not just a matter of privacy.

Asking companies to change their algorithms is quite honestly petty. And for some reason this has rubbed me the wrong way, gives out an attention seeking vibe. Just my two cents.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#87

Post by PascLeRasc »

Perseids wrote: post #70

I'm someone saddened that the discussion here focuses only on what the advertiser (/ tech companies) should have done and leaves out the aspect of how we have failed to bring the obvious solution to the harmed individual: Install an adblocker at the first sign of trouble. How come she was so morally obliged to watch any ads in the first place instead of engaging in basic self defense? Or if the answer is technologica…

I'm slowly becoming convinced adblocking is the most noble form of software development.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#88

Post by dsr_ »

jbob2000 wrote: post #57
40acres wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, I don't mind advertising or machine learning based recommendations that is a nice mix of "here's more of the same" and "hey, how about this from left field". I think Spotify for instance has a good mix of this. My biggest issue, aside for privacy concerns, is the efficacy of these systems. If I could get some nice gift ideas before purchase that would be great -- if these systems could realize that I made…

That’s a system that’s impossible to build. You’re describing something that can perfectly predict human behavior. If we built a system like this, it would not be used to sell me Tide Pods.

Of course it would be used to sell you Tide Pods. It would sell you cars, too. It would also be used to make you anxious and fearful, but not so depressed that you kill yourself. It would be used to make you vote for certain people, buy particular clothes, and encourage you to maximize your lifetime consumption.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#89

Post by cronix »

paulie_a wrote: post #75
cronix wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am coming to the conclusion that the only way to beat the system is to not play in the system. Or play as little as possible. I no longer go on FB, Instagram or Amazon. I do my best to just be anonymous. I don't "need" to hang out on social media. I lived quite happily before these services even existed, and will continue without them. We have control. We can resist their shiny toys. If we are waiting for THEM (or…

While I don't engage much on social media, I've found it better to randomly click an ad. I'm ruining their profile one click at a time. The ads I see across platforms and websites are so hilariously dumb and irrelevant now. You are going to be tracked, might as well ruin the analytics.

That might be a fun thing to do. Make google and the others pay out the nose by actually clicking as many ads as you can instead of avoiding them. Just have everybody be their own click farm. We could have an international "click to support business day" (hah) where for 24 hours everybody around the globe just clicks ads. That's what they want us to do, isn't it? Maybe we should give it to them.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#90

Post by PascLeRasc »

jrockway wrote: post #34
GuiA wrote: post #25

Banksy on advertising, in 2004: People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most…

I don't really see the difference between Banksy having himself plastered all over the media for shredding his artwork versus Colgate telling me to buy their toothpaste. Banksy understands and uses advertising better than anyone.

https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312?lang=en
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