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An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

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Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#71

Post by Klathmon »

mc32 wrote: post #63
Klathmon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But every ad network ive ever worked with already allows you to define categories of people you specifically don't want to show your ads to. It's on the shopders of the ad creator to set that up though. I did read a comment one time that said the companies might be doing it on purpose, to "reaffirm" you made the right choice going with their product. Not sure how true that is, but it might factor in.

Honestly, it’s a turn off for me; or rather a small annoyance. But if true, it must work for most people if true, though I’m having a hard time imagining people not slightly annoyed at this ad behavior.

Unfortunately being annoying and working aren't mutually exclusive.

And if that is really the case, then I'd argue it's on ad networks like Google and Facebook to find a way to realign incentives here so that what works best or makes the most money isn't annoying to the user (similar to how they are attempting to ban overly obnoxious ads).

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#72

Post by afandian »

res0nat0r wrote: post #43
protomyth wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an Ad platform not a member of this person's inner circle. Just shut the damn ads off for anything having to do with babies. At the end of the day, you are creating a mechanism to connect a person with a company so they can buy products. If something would be inappropriate for a salesperson to say to a person, then make damn sure your Ad network doesn't say that. It would be wholly inappropriate for a salesperson…

I think this is the overarching issue with the original post, as they're looking for Facebooks ad network to comfort them or give them some kind of advice, and that is totally not what it is designed to do.

I read:

> Or maybe, just maybe, not at all.

As "please don't".

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#73

Post by dkrich »

I feel like I’m alone in asking this but does personal responsibility play no part in this?

She starts by admitting that she voluntarily signaled to these platforms that she was pregnant. They are ad platforms. She then goes on to admit that she continued to go back on the platforms after and then blames them for showing ads she herself engaged with at one point!

I don’t think anyone would ever wish someone grieving to be reminded of the source of the grief or say “too bad.” But I think a reasonable person could conclude this is a little unreasonable.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#74

Post by lkdjjdjjjdskjd »

srvo wrote: post #21

This seems to happen a lot when one's experience is statistically unlikely, or when it doesn't neatly mesh with a commercial opportunity. For instance, I am a transgender woman and I get THE WEIRDEST ads. Makes sense, since an algorithm meshing together my engagement histories from ten years of social platforms must see something quite strange. The only appropriately targeted advertisements I get are from academics i…

You know non-transgender people also get unsuitable ads, right?

It's not a "rejection" of your reality. AI and ad logic simply isn't very good, and apparently business sense isn't either. Maybe if there were products targeted at transgender people, somebody could make a killing with them.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#75

Post by paulie_a »

cronix wrote: post #66
srvo wrote: post #21

This seems to happen a lot when one's experience is statistically unlikely, or when it doesn't neatly mesh with a commercial opportunity. For instance, I am a transgender woman and I get THE WEIRDEST ads. Makes sense, since an algorithm meshing together my engagement histories from ten years of social platforms must see something quite strange. The only appropriately targeted advertisements I get are from academics i…

I am coming to the conclusion that the only way to beat the system is to not play in the system. Or play as little as possible. I no longer go on FB, Instagram or Amazon. I do my best to just be anonymous. I don't "need" to hang out on social media. I lived quite happily before these services even existed, and will continue without them. We have control. We can resist their shiny toys. If we are waiting for THEM (or…

While I don't engage much on social media, I've found it better to randomly click an ad. I'm ruining their profile one click at a time.

The ads I see across platforms and websites are so hilariously dumb and irrelevant now. You are going to be tracked, might as well ruin the analytics.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#77

Post by japhyr »

dkrich wrote: post #73

I feel like I’m alone in asking this but does personal responsibility play no part in this? She starts by admitting that she voluntarily signaled to these platforms that she was pregnant. They are ad platforms. She then goes on to admit that she continued to go back on the platforms after and then blames them for showing ads she herself engaged with at one point! I don’t think anyone would ever wish someone grieving…

I didn't read that as she "voluntarily signaled to these platforms that she was pregnant". She made social media posts with many clear signals that she was pregnant.

She basically said, "I know your algorithms can detect that I was pregnant. Can't your algorithms detect that my baby is no longer alive?" That seems like a pretty fair statement.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#78

Post by 282883392 »

dkrich wrote: post #73

I feel like I’m alone in asking this but does personal responsibility play no part in this? She starts by admitting that she voluntarily signaled to these platforms that she was pregnant. They are ad platforms. She then goes on to admit that she continued to go back on the platforms after and then blames them for showing ads she herself engaged with at one point! I don’t think anyone would ever wish someone grieving…

She didn't voluntarily choose "Send me pregnancy related ads," the system inferred that from her history/context. She's asking why the system couldn't also infer that her pregnancy failed, after she made a considerable amount, if not more/stronger signals for the later.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#79

Post by [deleted] »

Klathmon wrote: post #45
froindt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd work in this case, but would destroy lots of value when people like me would go in every few months and reset all my ad profiles. Then again, the total percentage of people who would care enough to go in and do that is probably pretty small.

I'm going to start sounding like I work for them, but Google already allows you to disable targeted advertising entirely, and Facebook at least let's you disable targeting for the vast majority of things (the major exceptions being age, gender, location, and the content of the page if I recall correctly).

[deleted]

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#80

Post by gbear605 »

throwanem wrote: post #58
skystrife wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting idea, but I'm bothered by the idea that social media platforms would be effectively monetizing grief in this solution. This sort of thing, to me, points at the deficiencies of appealing to purely statistical patterns without any guard rails placed on top. After all, statistically, the most likely relevant categories after "pre-natal" are going to be surrounding children who _were_ born safely. So if you a…

They already monetize joy. Is monetizing grief worse? Why? What about monetizing neither? What's the signal to pivot the relevance model significantly away from a world full of robots constantly self-optimizing to exploit emotions they cannot understand or share? (Or if we can't manage that, maybe at least we could somewhat curtail the misbehavior of the ML systems they foist on the rest of us.)

If they monetize grief, they’re incentivized to maximize it
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