An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth • Hacker News Board

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#21

Post by srvo » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

This seems to happen a lot when one's experience is statistically unlikely, or when it doesn't neatly mesh with a commercial opportunity.

For instance, I am a transgender woman and I get THE WEIRDEST ads. Makes sense, since an algorithm meshing together my engagement histories from ten years of social platforms must see something quite strange.

The only appropriately targeted advertisements I get are from academics interested in studying me. Like: "are you a trans woman? Take this study and win a gift card."

When platforms attempt to monetize me, they wind up pushing the brooks brothers dress shirt deals and so on that I used to gobble up in my prior life.

I've taken my business local as a result, but the algorithmic rejection of my reality on these platforms takes a pretty consistent toll. I don't know what the solution is, but wanted to underscore that this is a broader problem.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#22

Post by johnny_and1 » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

I feel like this is similar with Facebook "making it rain" whenever you send money through their messenger. It does not matter why you send the money, they always celebrate. Very distasteful and not taking into consideration the real reason. They presented this feature at MobileHCI'17 as part of their "Delight" mantra. They don't care about 100% accuracy, as long as it works for the majority, they will not cater to the minority.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#23

Post by basic1 » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

skystrife wrote: post #9

res0nat0r wrote: post #2

I saw this post the other day, but this just seems like it is going to involve even more outrage at FB when the algorithm presents something incorrectly. Getting ads for "You just lost a child, would you like to call a helpline?" are going to outrage just as many people, which is why I expect they just stay away from that type of subject matter all together.

The correct response is not to try to advertise targeting the traumatic event, but to pivot and avoid it and related subjects entirely. I doubt people will complain if ads about babies and parenting were to disappear after a still birth or miscarriage.

>The correct response is not to try to advertise...

Never going to happen, they say marketers ruin everything for a reason.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#24

Post by thanatropism » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

jbob2000 wrote: post #20

40acres wrote: post #13

I've been really interested in a 'digital agent' model for a while now. Some profile, and/or grand set of settings that apply to all my interactions online. I interface with way too many platforms online to keep track of, this can lead to unwanted and annoying targeting similar to (but obviously on a much lesser scale) to this mother. I recently bought a shaving kit for my future brother-in-law for Christmas, I looke…

Or we could all just start googling and searching for things that are completely irrelevant to us. This would fuck up the advertising models and marketers would be forced to change their practices. So I say to you all: go and google some random shit and do some deep dives into it. Be predictably unpredictable.

I run a comment reply bot on my reddit account on saturday afternoons/nights when I'm out. It just posts some highly-voted comment from a CSV. My reddit history makes no freaking sense.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#25

Post by GuiA » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

Banksy on advertising, in 2004:

People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even start asking for theirs.

The problem is that you can't graffiti or tear down a digital ad. Activism is nigh impossible in digital walled gardens.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#26

Post by just_one_time_ » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

jbob2000 wrote: post #20

40acres wrote: post #13

I've been really interested in a 'digital agent' model for a while now. Some profile, and/or grand set of settings that apply to all my interactions online. I interface with way too many platforms online to keep track of, this can lead to unwanted and annoying targeting similar to (but obviously on a much lesser scale) to this mother. I recently bought a shaving kit for my future brother-in-law for Christmas, I looke…

Or we could all just start googling and searching for things that are completely irrelevant to us. This would fuck up the advertising models and marketers would be forced to change their practices. So I say to you all: go and google some random shit and do some deep dives into it. Be predictably unpredictable.

Or, instead of wasting your time trying to trick an algorithm, just use an ad blocker.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#27

Post by whatshisface » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

jbob2000 wrote: post #20

40acres wrote: post #13

I've been really interested in a 'digital agent' model for a while now. Some profile, and/or grand set of settings that apply to all my interactions online. I interface with way too many platforms online to keep track of, this can lead to unwanted and annoying targeting similar to (but obviously on a much lesser scale) to this mother. I recently bought a shaving kit for my future brother-in-law for Christmas, I looke…

Or we could all just start googling and searching for things that are completely irrelevant to us. This would fuck up the advertising models and marketers would be forced to change their practices. So I say to you all: go and google some random shit and do some deep dives into it. Be predictably unpredictable.

There are people working around the clock to determine this information, and there's no indication that they couldn't just peg you as "open-minded" and start selling products associated with that.

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#28

Post by kmetan » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

jbob2000 wrote: post #20

40acres wrote: post #13

I've been really interested in a 'digital agent' model for a while now. Some profile, and/or grand set of settings that apply to all my interactions online. I interface with way too many platforms online to keep track of, this can lead to unwanted and annoying targeting similar to (but obviously on a much lesser scale) to this mother. I recently bought a shaving kit for my future brother-in-law for Christmas, I looke…

Or we could all just start googling and searching for things that are completely irrelevant to us. This would fuck up the advertising models and marketers would be forced to change their practices. So I say to you all: go and google some random shit and do some deep dives into it. Be predictably unpredictable.

Maybe this is close to your idea: https://cs.nyu.edu/trackmenot/

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#29

Post by skystrife » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

srvo wrote: post #21

This seems to happen a lot when one's experience is statistically unlikely, or when it doesn't neatly mesh with a commercial opportunity. For instance, I am a transgender woman and I get THE WEIRDEST ads. Makes sense, since an algorithm meshing together my engagement histories from ten years of social platforms must see something quite strange. The only appropriately targeted advertisements I get are from academics i…

I wonder if it makes sense for ad platforms to enable a "clear history" option just like our browsers do? That way you can say very clearly "the current model is wrong, please restart and try building a new one for me". That might also help this particular case: rebuild the model from scratch including only content going forward rather than backward. Should eliminate the baby ads effectively, right?

Re: An open letter to FB, Twitter, Instagram regarding algorithms and my son's birth

#30

Post by protomyth » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

res0nat0r wrote: post #2

I saw this post the other day, but this just seems like it is going to involve even more outrage at FB when the algorithm presents something incorrectly. Getting ads for "You just lost a child, would you like to call a helpline?" are going to outrage just as many people, which is why I expect they just stay away from that type of subject matter all together.

Its an Ad platform not a member of this person's inner circle. Just shut the damn ads off for anything having to do with babies. At the end of the day, you are creating a mechanism to connect a person with a company so they can buy products. If something would be inappropriate for a salesperson to say to a person, then make damn sure your Ad network doesn't say that. It would be wholly inappropriate for a salesperson to suggest a hotline. Just stop. The Ad network is business, this just got deeply personal.