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Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

aspistrategist.org.au

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Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#31

Post by andyidsinga »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #27

Like people with a loaded gun, sailors and officiers of warships think they are invincible and anybody else has to avoid them and not vice versa. I guess the bleak reality after such incidents would give them a cold shower to wake up, but probably too late. All modern warships were designed as if they operate on open ocean only when in reality most of the time they must navigate in world where commercial shipping has…

Speaking about sailors and invincibility - there's a funny story that's circulated around (false according to snopes [1]) about a particular US and Canadian Navy interaction :) :)

Text snipped from snopes article:

Americans: “Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.”

Canadians: “Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.”

Americans: “This is the captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.”

Canadians: “No, I say again, you divert YOUR course.”

Americans: “THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES’ ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH. THAT’S ONE-FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.”

Canadians: “This is a lighthouse. Your call.”

[1] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-obstinate-lighthouse/

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#32

Post by unixhero »

If you listen to the Audi recording , at least for me one thing seems clear. The navy personnel onboard the ship are INCREDIBLY ARROGANT when receiving warnings from the incoming bunker ship.

Plot twist. An American Navy person was also on the bridge when the incident occured.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#33

Post by davedx »

ALittleLight wrote: post #3

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

I toured a Norwegian coast guard vessel once. The bridge really wasn’t any more equipment filled than a merchant ship, in fact the place the pilot sat had the modern joystick/bow thruster arrangement like modern aircraft have. It looked like good UX to me. I really wonder what happened here

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#34

Post by TeMPOraL »

andyidsinga wrote: post #31
sinuhe69 wrote: post #27

Like people with a loaded gun, sailors and officiers of warships think they are invincible and anybody else has to avoid them and not vice versa. I guess the bleak reality after such incidents would give them a cold shower to wake up, but probably too late. All modern warships were designed as if they operate on open ocean only when in reality most of the time they must navigate in world where commercial shipping has…

Speaking about sailors and invincibility - there's a funny story that's circulated around (false according to snopes [1]) about a particular US and Canadian Navy interaction :) :) Text snipped from snopes article: Americans: “Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.” Canadians: “Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.” Americans: “This is the capta…

Yeah, I've heard variants of this story since I was a kid (usually with different countries substituted for "Canadians" here). Funny, nonetheless.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#35

Post by einaros »

remarkEon wrote: post #22
kristofferR wrote: post #8

This site has a great animation of the crash, including the leaked radio communications: https://www.vg.no/spesial/2018/helge-ingstad-ulykken/ Click "Helge Ingstad natt" to see the POV from the frigate. "Styrbord" means starboard/right, that's basically all the Norwegian you need to know.

Really cool, thanks. I’m actualy pretty surprised how much of the Norwegian language I could imply into English there. It wasn’t that hard to follow along on that map. Context matters a lot, I guess.

I’ve been meaning to translate the WebGL version embedded there, but never got that far. The downloadable versions (linked under the video) for Windows and Mac both have subtitles of the audio log, as well as the UI. And both have more correct lighting than the video clip that’s embedded on the page.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#36

Post by vasili111 »

davedx wrote: post #33
ALittleLight wrote: post #3

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

I toured a Norwegian coast guard vessel once. The bridge really wasn’t any more equipment filled than a merchant ship, in fact the place the pilot sat had the modern joystick/bow thruster arrangement like modern aircraft have. It looked like good UX to me. I really wonder what happened here

I think there will be much difference in tech equipment between Frigate and Coast Guard ship. The Frigate will have more advanced technical equipment than Coast Guard ship.

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#37

Post by vasili111 »

expertentipp wrote: post #28
ALittleLight wrote: post #3

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

Maybe the displays were displaying an unskippable ad?

They do not use uBlock Origin???

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#38

Post by Lewton »

ALittleLight wrote: post #3

One issue the article goes into is that the sailors were distracted by their high tech bridge computers and so failed to notice the ship they were in the process of ramming. I have trouble understanding how this works - what is your high tech bridge gear showing you if not the surrounding area? Someone should be checking where the ship is going and whether they check with their mark one eyeballs or their high tech sh…

High tech bridge computers = smartphones? :D

Re: Norwegian frigate sinking has far-reaching implications

#39

Post by mirimir »

andyidsinga wrote: post #31
sinuhe69 wrote: post #27

Like people with a loaded gun, sailors and officiers of warships think they are invincible and anybody else has to avoid them and not vice versa. I guess the bleak reality after such incidents would give them a cold shower to wake up, but probably too late. All modern warships were designed as if they operate on open ocean only when in reality most of the time they must navigate in world where commercial shipping has…

Speaking about sailors and invincibility - there's a funny story that's circulated around (false according to snopes [1]) about a particular US and Canadian Navy interaction :) :) Text snipped from snopes article: Americans: “Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.” Canadians: “Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.” Americans: “This is the capta…

Yeah, great joke. Came here to post it.

But damn, Snopes doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humor. I mean, it's a bloody joke! And anyway, there's no way that they could know about every naval confrontation throughout even the historical era. Pissing matches about course corrections are all too common.

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