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Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

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Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#101

Post by jldugger »

euyyn wrote: post #42
mattnewton wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that hit the nail on the head: once you see the arbitrage opportunity, to exercise it you must knowingly discriminate against women, which is unethical and likely illegal.

No, you really don't. The following isn't true: > But in order to arbitrage this, you have to be willing to pay women and men differently. A very simple way to arbitrage it without discriminating is to set your wages somewhere between what others pay men and women. Women will flock to you, as you pay better than elsewhere, while men will tend to leave to the discriminating jobs. You pay everyone the same, but the res…

Well, this assumes you advertise your wages, and are willing to let them walk when an employee receives a counteroffer, or when a candidate mentions an offer from a competitor.

Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#102

Post by 0db532a0 »

belorn wrote: post #95
0db532a0 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What data do you base these predictions on? Is there any relevant data in the paper?

I base my predictions on the number of studies and lecture which explore different aspect of those issues, but what I would like to see is a study that address those directly in the context of wage differences between men and women. This paper could have done this since they have much of the data, but they didn't. If you just want some random sources, there is a government study here in Sweden that looks at involunta…

You’re right. It would be interesting if the study looked at role reversal too.

Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#103

Post by [deleted] »

UncleMeat wrote: post #99
the_trapper wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The study addressed this. There are sexist gender roles at play even among single parents, potentially. (To wit, you didn’t lament the rise of “single fatherhood.”) Isn't that mostly caused by a sexist judiciary. I know that as a man in America in the event of a divorce it is very unlikely that I would get majority custody of my children. From what I've seen it takes a lot for a woman to lose custody if she wants i…

The custody gap is largely caused by different desires about custody. This is still an issue, but it is the same issue as the wage gap due to different career choices. When men and women fight for custody equally, they tend to get joint custody.

[deleted]

Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#104

Post by yourmom69 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #99
the_trapper wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The study addressed this. There are sexist gender roles at play even among single parents, potentially. (To wit, you didn’t lament the rise of “single fatherhood.”) Isn't that mostly caused by a sexist judiciary. I know that as a man in America in the event of a divorce it is very unlikely that I would get majority custody of my children. From what I've seen it takes a lot for a woman to lose custody if she wants i…

The custody gap is largely caused by different desires about custody. This is still an issue, but it is the same issue as the wage gap due to different career choices. When men and women fight for custody equally, they tend to get joint custody.

Yeah, fathers may get joint custody, but they aren't getting equal custody. Typically this is every other weekend and every other major holiday. Additionally, fathers are typically still required to pay child support with 50/50 custody. Maybe single fathers wouldn't need to work such long hours if they weren't forced to provide their ex-wives with a UBI.

Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#105

Post by marchenko »

the_trapper wrote: post #89
abalone wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rise of single motherhood strikes again. The study addressed this. There are sexist gender roles at play even among single parents, potentially. (To wit, you didn’t lament the rise of “single fatherhood.”) From the study, > These results suggest that single men are able to take care of their dependents by working more overtime, possibly to pay for child support or to finance other forms of child care. Single women,…

> The study addressed this. There are sexist gender roles at play even among single parents, potentially. (To wit, you didn’t lament the rise of “single fatherhood.”) Isn't that mostly caused by a sexist judiciary. I know that as a man in America in the event of a divorce it is very unlikely that I would get majority custody of my children. From what I've seen it takes a lot for a woman to lose custody if she wants i…

When I last looked it up, the US data indicated that 91% of custody cases are decided without recourse to the family court system. Of the 9% that go to family court system, 5% are decided after a custody evaluation, and the remaining 4% go to trial. Only 11% of custody cases go to mediation.

It appears that the majority of custody decisions are made by the parents themselves, without recourse to the court, or even to an external mediator. If the judiciary is causing a disparity in custody outcomes, it must be indirectly.

Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#106

Post by marchenko »

UncleMeat wrote: post #99
the_trapper wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The study addressed this. There are sexist gender roles at play even among single parents, potentially. (To wit, you didn’t lament the rise of “single fatherhood.”) Isn't that mostly caused by a sexist judiciary. I know that as a man in America in the event of a divorce it is very unlikely that I would get majority custody of my children. From what I've seen it takes a lot for a woman to lose custody if she wants i…

The custody gap is largely caused by different desires about custody. This is still an issue, but it is the same issue as the wage gap due to different career choices. When men and women fight for custody equally, they tend to get joint custody.

I agree that there is an interesting and potentially informative symmetry between the custody gap and the wage gap. They both describe situations that different groups find deeply unfair, but can be ascribed in large part to "different choices". It might be fruitful to take a more holistic view to understand why the "individual choice" explanation is so unsatisfying to many.

Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#107

Post by TaylorAlexander »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #58
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the original complaints of feminism was that we had developed a culture where both men and women work all day long, but women’s work was unpaid domestic work while the men got the paycheck. That gave men huge power over women in a society that still relied on the women’s work. So we can identify a problem. The society (of the 1960’s and before in particular) required women’s work, but women were not compensate…

> One of the original complaints of feminism was that we had developed a culture where both men and women work all day long, but women’s work was unpaid domestic work while the men got the paycheck. That gave men huge power over women in a society that still relied on the women’s work. The woman is effectively doing the work for the man (or for herself). She doesn't do the work for nothing, she does it in exchange fo…

She is not working for pay. Her freedom comes from the man she is dependent on. And many feminists found when they tried to work that the job market was, surprise surprise, not welcoming to women. So while I agree with your literal words that she does get some benefit and that she could try to find a job, I cannot help but read in to your words as suggesting the situation is fair. And that I completely disagree with.

Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#108

Post by dang »

em-bee wrote: post #87
dang wrote: post #4

Url changed from https://fee.org/articles/harvard-study-gender-pay-gap-explai... , which points to this.

why? that article provides a summary and is more interesting to read. not everyone wants to read an 80 page paper. i'd understand if the article didn't add any value at all, but i don't think that's the case here.

That article is ideologically more tendentious, which would pretty well guarantee a flamewar in the thread. That and the site guideline favoring original sources (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) made it seem a clear call.

Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#109

Post by throwaway5250 »

dang wrote: post #5
throwaway5250 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to get someone to understand something when it's in their interest not to.

Please don't post unsubstantive comments here. All the juice has been squeezed out of that cliché a long time ago.

Apologies for my lack of originality.

Re: Why Do Women Earn Less Than Men? Evidence from Bus and Train Operators [pdf]

#110

Post by pluto9 »

sigi45 wrote: post #93
warp_factor wrote: post #23

The coverage on this subject is more and more made to follow a feminist/sexist narrative that wants to prove that the world is patriarchal and against womens. the common saying "0.70$ for every 1.00$ of a man" is when you average all the women salaries against all the man salaries. It doesn't take into account specific individuals or interests. I believe the main issue here is that womens are on average more interest…

Just imagine you work 40h per week and get money $ and it doesn't depend on how hard you push at salary negotiations or what gender you have or if you can make children or how willing you are to do overtime or work on skewed work hours. That doesn't only help woman, that helps everyone.

> That doesn't only help woman, that helps everyone.

No, it doesn't help anyone. What if I have a financial emergency and am willing to work overtime for the next month for some extra cash? How exactly am I "helped" by not having the option to do that?

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