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After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

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Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#161

Post by seem_2211 »

crunchyfrog wrote: post #60

Anyone else find it strange that this person worked in sales for one company which called itself a startup despite being nearly two decades old but keeps making these sweeping generalizations about startups and tech? > Here was the biggest surprise about working in tech: even though everyone wears their team T-shirts and hoodies, rah-rah chants at the monthly all-staff meetings and competes for the sombrero of shame…

Importantly, I would argue that this feeling that you need to feel some level of pressure is an important part of a sales organization, and is actually a good thing (when managed properly).

Not in a hopeless, we are doomed way, but you can make a lot of money in sales, but you have to go out and make that happen. In your mid twenties you can make the equivalent of an investment banker or top lawyer, and you don't work anywhere as many hours as they do.

Note: I work in external recruiting (which is a very sales heavy role).

Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#162

Post by gerbilly »

I've been at a few Canadian startups on the tech side, some as lead Architect, and the thing I took away from them is that while they all called themselves tech startups, what they really are are sales organizations.

In each startup I worked at[1] the sales guys would write deals that were nearly impossible for the tech people to deliver on.

And when we did manage to deliver on them, it wasn't a 'win' for us.

For one thing it kept us in firefighting mode all the time because we were never given the time to do the job right and and two, it just emboldened the sales guys to write even bigger deals.

I burned out so bad from those jobs that I developed some medical issues as a result. I'm mostly ok now, but in my opinion it's not worth it. If you aren't a founder, those options won't ever be worth anything, and you will never get those years back.

Even worse, if you burn out too badly, you may end up with permanent health issues.

[1] I won't name them cos I have nothing good to say about them.

[2] The graphic midway down the article where someone responds to a text about work from bed hit too close to home for me. I can't tell you how many pings I got on slack about some server being down sometimes as the last thing I saw before going to bed, or often as the first thing I saw in the morning.

Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#163

Post by wpietri »

asianthrowaway wrote: post #136
pjc50 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it allows other classes to depend on an abstraction instead of a concrete class. ... which has exactly zero concrete advantages if there's only one implementation of the class.

A good programmer plans ahead. Edit: of course it is up to individual judgement on a case by case basis, and there are instances were it is obvious that no other concrete implementation of an interface will be required. But otherwise, writing an interface is good practice because it helps safeguard against time consuming future refactoring.

No. I get why you think this way, as I also used to. Good programmers may think ahead, but they don't build ahead.

Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#164

Post by onemoresoop »

Personal anecdote: Worked for a startup for 14 months a couple of years ago. The pay was on the low range with promises for the future. The perks: they offered $10 for lunch on Seamless and one unlimited metro-card per month. And $20 for dinner if we stayed after 8:30pm IIRC. The implicit untold cost was that we were not supposed to leave the office during lunch since it would be delivered there. In order to get edible food I had to put 10 myself since it would not meet the minimum for delivery and the ones that did were trash. In no time did I realize that we were paying for the lunch ourselves by working the other half hour of the lunch break. The 8:30 dinner was obvious what it was:)

Cart food was an option that I started taking after a while. Food was the same and I would de-tense during the break. GC sponsored employees did not dare do that.

When new clients were visiting the office (once in a while) we were supposed to become animated and chatty, draw diagrams and seem deeply involved with some problem; in a few instances 3 remote contractors that were doing design work for us were asked to come to the office to make it look as if the company is larger than it seems. They were thinking of buying a Foosball table and play during those visits to impress potential customers. I left before they they got it.

Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#165

Post by nativespecies »

crunchyfrog wrote: post #60

Anyone else find it strange that this person worked in sales for one company which called itself a startup despite being nearly two decades old but keeps making these sweeping generalizations about startups and tech? > Here was the biggest surprise about working in tech: even though everyone wears their team T-shirts and hoodies, rah-rah chants at the monthly all-staff meetings and competes for the sombrero of shame…

And I can testify from working with and consulting as a content person for 6 startups over the past 13 years that most of his generalizations are true. That was one of the most accurate takes I've read on this BS "culture" I have come across in a LONG while.

Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#166

Post by [deleted] »

golergka wrote: post #139
Delmania wrote: post #81

Whenever I find myself falling for this, I keenly remember the advice given to me from Your Money or Your Life, which is that you are at work for 1 reason and 1 reason only: money. Many people say they work for other reasons, like socialization, meaning, etc. Robinson (the author) makes a point that you can find these things in volunteer activities, and that your loyalty ends at the paycheck. Your company will not he…

Because you don't have to have only one reason to work. I mean, everybody needs some amount of money for basic neccessities, but after that, it's a complicated equation of different priorities. And if you choose money only, then you're spending the best time of your day maximizing only one resources, while letting everything else take the back seat. Why do it if you can get socialization and meaning from work too? Al…

[deleted]

Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#167

Post by Delmania »

golergka wrote: post #139
Delmania wrote: post #81

Whenever I find myself falling for this, I keenly remember the advice given to me from Your Money or Your Life, which is that you are at work for 1 reason and 1 reason only: money. Many people say they work for other reasons, like socialization, meaning, etc. Robinson (the author) makes a point that you can find these things in volunteer activities, and that your loyalty ends at the paycheck. Your company will not he…

Because you don't have to have only one reason to work. I mean, everybody needs some amount of money for basic neccessities, but after that, it's a complicated equation of different priorities. And if you choose money only, then you're spending the best time of your day maximizing only one resources, while letting everything else take the back seat. Why do it if you can get socialization and meaning from work too? Al…

Some context is needed. The goal of Your Money or Your Life was to get more people familiar with financial independence, the idea being once you have saved enough to "retire" early, you can pick the projects you work on and the people you work with. So in that case, yes, you do optimize for resources.

Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#168

Post by wpietri »

leetcrew wrote: post #126
wpietri wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand these startups are voluntary organizations. You choose to work there or not. I think this sounds good in theory and is very shaky in practice. For example, look at indentured servitude [1], where people can sell themselves into time-limited slavery. Once common, it has been banned. You will find people suggesting we bring it back while waving the banner of "freedom". It's especially erroneous here…

indentured servitude may be banned, but similar dynamics still exist today. in the abstract, the college loan system in the US is not so different: you receive something valuable upfront (an education) and then you have to pay it back before you are really free to enjoy the fruits of your labor. while on the one hand you are not bound to a particular employer, the length of "servitude" is not set at the beginning and…

I am personally opposed to the student loan system, but I don't think it's particularly akin to indentured servitude. The latter means not just one employer, but one owner who commands 100% of your time, feeds and houses you, controls where you live, can sell you at any time to somebody else, and a host of other things. Student loans just require you to pay back the loan out of your earnings. It's much more akin to a mortgage than slavery.

Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#169

Post by tarnith »

lucidone wrote: post #22

I'm surprised by the amount of salt (for lack of a better word in my vocabulary) in the comments. I've worked at a Canadian start up. It was not a unicorn, but you were expected to work long hours, be a "10xer", always be responsive, and put in hours on the weekend. Those expectations were never made explicit, but the company had a lot of churn for those who didn't "fit the culture" or acquiesce to the cult of person…

Sounds like we've had similar Canadian startup experiences.

Expectations quickly rose to time on weekends, responsiveness to emails and requests at all hours of the day, and job duties ranging from DevOps and app development, to customer and client support for all issues after they let go of their customer support team.

I'm about ready for a bush somewhere.

Re: After landing a lucrative job at a tech startup, I had made a terrible mistake

#170

Post by CryptoPunk »

wpietri wrote: post #113
dmix wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for a big company/megacorp without valuable good stock options/bonuses on weekends and off-hours is dumb and abusive. On the other hand these startups are voluntary organizations. You choose to work there or not. I don't see anything wrong with a company deciding on a culture/work enviornment which attracts people who are very dedicated to the company (and hope to be rewarded in the long term as such) and are…

> On the other hand these startups are voluntary organizations. You choose to work there or not. I think this sounds good in theory and is very shaky in practice. For example, look at indentured servitude [1], where people can sell themselves into time-limited slavery. Once common, it has been banned. You will find people suggesting we bring it back while waving the banner of "freedom". It's especially erroneous here…

>>I think this sounds good in theory and is very shaky in practice.

If it were shaky, a court of law somewhere would find a comparable employment arrangement fraudulent and ultimately non-voluntary.

Social activists appealing to the court of public opinion, where under-informed people can be swayed with appeals to emotion, to change how interactions are governed, instead of a court of law, where a jury of one's peers have the opportunity to deliberate on the evidence presented, reveals them as disingenuous.

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