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Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

reuters.com

201–210 of 355 posts

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#201

The question I have is: is it possible that there was such an incredible threat to national security that even an auditor could be convinced by a federal agency to give a false report? If it really didn't happen, how could a reputable news agency get a report so wrong? What exactly is going on here?

The problem with this line of reasoning -- "how do we know that each denial isn't just a sign of more coercion from powerful forces" -- isn't that it's impossible. It's that that it's unfalsifiable.

I got into a brief argument in comments here not too long ago about the saying "you can't prove a negative" which got bogged down in (what I considered to be) pedantic semantics; what we mean in practice is this kind of "negative." Instead of the conspiracy-minded folks providing proof that powerful, shadowy forces have come out in force against Bloomberg to discredit and suppress their reporting on an actual national security incident, they're demanding that skeptics prove that they haven't. And how can we do this? The complete lack of evidence for this happening might just mean that the shadowy, powerful forces are really good at hiding their tracks. We can posit that if they were really that powerful, they'd have suppressed the original reporting, but we can't prove that Bloomberg didn't just get lucky, or that their diligent, plucky reporters didn't somehow catch the Deep State off-guard for just a moment. We can point out that generally when we see this kind of story, other reporters in other organizations would have corroborated and even expanded the story by now, and that other reporters have said that they've tried and failed to do so. But that might mean the conspiracy is covering their tracks. That they've got to them. That the rest of the journalistic world is IN ON THE CONSPIRACY, MAN.

But it's also possible that the reason it increasingly looks like Bloomberg got played is that, well, Bloomberg got played. Like a cigar, sometimes a bad article is just a bad article.

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#202
post #28

Let's say Super Micro is right and there were no malicious hardware at all for sure. What are the consequences for Bloomberg for this incompetence? I mean, there needs to be something.. Just because you're a news organization, you can't simply escape with "Oh, my bad". This had real implications on stock prices of so many companies and wiped off shareholder value on many of them, including Super Micro. If Bloomberg's…

I doubt anything will happen to Bloomberg. If the journalists are found to have fabricated the story, they will probably let go. Even if bloomberg was to suffer financially or legally, some billionaire or company would bail or buy them out like what happened with Rolling Stone or WashingtonPost in the past few years. Well Bloomberg wouldn't even need outside help since their owner and namesake is one of the wealthiest men in the world. These large news companies are pretty much untouchable since they are viewed as systematically important and are backed by the wealthy class.

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#203
post #181

I'd be super interested in the follow up, and not just for monetary reasons[1] I mean, my impression is that there has been a lot of news trying to stir up US vs China animosity; I mean, I'm sure that a lot of industrial/state espionage happens, but the renewed focus just seems a little suspicious to me at a time when our government is trying to distract us from possible Russian interference in our election. Makes me…

> the renewed focus just seems a little suspicious to me at a time when our government is trying to distract us from possible Russian interference in our election

That might be a reasonable suspicion if Bloomberg were a pro-Trump publication. It is anything but. Its editorials and opinion pages bash the current administration almost daily, and there have been rumors recently that Michael Bloomberg is preparing to sell his stake in order to run for president in 2020 (after deciding not to run in 2016 because that could have split the opposition to Trump).

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#204
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if Bloomberg's story is completely true, Apple / Amazon / Super Micro might have no other choice, but to firmly deny it. Because in that case, it's United States vs. China, not just some publisher vs. a few publicly traded companies. When national security interests and international relationships between two largest economies in the world are at stake, it's not Tim Cook or Jeff Bezos, who get to decide, what ca…

You're claiming they can be compelled to lie.

If the story was true, only a few people in each company would have been aware of these vulnerabilities, and they might not have been allowed to talk to anyone about them by FBI. Then, even if others were informed, they would have to pretend, that they were not.

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing, just like nothing will happen to the outlets who are currently pushing this "Huwai is spying on everybody" narrative with not an ounce of evidence for it except for unfounded and unsourced claims by FiveEyes intelligence services [0]. Afaik that whole Bloomberg/Super Micro thing was similarly set up, referring to "anonymous intelligence/industry services", not even naming the company that supposedly did the…

Seems like anonymous sources inside the intelligence agencies is how a lot of the news gets generated these days. Anonymous figures don't have to worry about their reputation or credibility and can just leak occasionally true information to keep getting published.

When to grant anonymity is a complex question, but I'm immensely frustrated by how many reporters don't even stop to question why a source might want anonymity. In particular, why a source who's part of the government, making a claim that supports a government narrative, via unclassified data, would have any need for anonymity if they had faith in their claim.

Conor Friedersdorf summarized matters very nicely years ago, and it's a shame so few people seem to have paid attention:

> The very weakest case for withholding a source’s name is when 1) powerful officials 2) with a clear incentive to lie 3) use anonymity to spread a self-serving narrative 4) without accountability 5) on a matter of great consequence.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/the-per...

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#206
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect newspapers to be more knowledgable about politics and international relations than scientific topics like physics. The latter is too broad a category, the former is usually the paper's primary focus.

Politics and International relations are opinion fields, not fact fields. It's impossible to be wrong about things that are impossible to falsify.

I wouldn't quite say that. Some aspects are opinions, but there's plenty of facts. Such as "House Reps A and B are cooperating on a bill regarding X" - that's a fact. What your position on X is, whether the bill is a good or bad idea, and why A and B are cooperating on it are opinions.

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#207
post #136
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're free to sue the paper, but it'd be futile because the standard for such lawsuits to succeed in the US basically requires Bloomberg to have known that the claims were false. Just (say) completely ignoring normal journalistic practices to get a juicy scoop would not be enough.

Well, Rolling Stone settled over the UVA rape story. Then again, that settlement is rather small in the grand scheme of things. Given the nature of the case, maybe it was cheaper than going to trial. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/13/business/media/rape-uva-r... Edit: I forgot about this case, where they lost at trial. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/08/business/media/in-rolling...

As I recall, Rolling Stone got done on a (somewhat dubious) technicality - the jury decided that them adding the disclaimer counted as republishing the article after they knew it was false. If it wasn't for that they'd most likely have got away with it despite all the astoundingly bad reporting.

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WRT the how could they get it so wrong question, I guess it's time for the obligatory link to Michael Crichton's essay "Why Speculate?" and his discussion of the "Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect" [1] Money quote: "You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either t…

AKA the Reddit Effect. Everyone on Reddit posts as if they know what they're talking about when, in reality, they only have a cursory knowledge of it and yet the entire site is somehow treated as a curated collection of high-quality, factual information.

This is right! I think there is another, perhaps unrelated Reddit effect. Blogs and some news sites pick up on Reddit and then feed them what they know will be popular on Reddit. The cycle continues. That's why Reddit is so good for astroturfing.

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#209
post #203
post #181

I'd be super interested in the follow up, and not just for monetary reasons[1] I mean, my impression is that there has been a lot of news trying to stir up US vs China animosity; I mean, I'm sure that a lot of industrial/state espionage happens, but the renewed focus just seems a little suspicious to me at a time when our government is trying to distract us from possible Russian interference in our election. Makes me…

> the renewed focus just seems a little suspicious to me at a time when our government is trying to distract us from possible Russian interference in our election That might be a reasonable suspicion if Bloomberg were a pro-Trump publication. It is anything but. Its editorials and opinion pages bash the current administration almost daily, and there have been rumors recently that Michael Bloomberg is preparing to sel…

I think if you dangle government sources, even "anonymous" ones, in front of a reporter like Jordan Robertson, you are gonna get a story, regardless of the editorial slant of the paper.

Of course, my crazy conspiracy story doesn't explain Robertson's industry sources. It could be, as others have said, a misunderstanding (I mean, we all know IPMI is run through with exploits; no conspiracy there. You just don't put your IPMI on an untrusted network. ) and it doesn't explain his continuing to stand with the story even after the giant and poorly controlled security community has been set to tearing apart motherboards.

Really, that last bit points to... if not incompetence, at least to him not understanding how this sort of thing works.

Re: Super Micro says review found no malicious chips in motherboards

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like anonymous sources inside the intelligence agencies is how a lot of the news gets generated these days. Anonymous figures don't have to worry about their reputation or credibility and can just leak occasionally true information to keep getting published.

They do have a reputation, to the journalist. It's not as far reaching, but you bet that journalist isn't going to trust that source again if they are caught lying. Or even that agency.

This is certainly how things ought to work, but it's far from clear that it does.

A reporter on an international affairs beat can't possibly dismiss sources as broad as the State Department or CIA - which makes it very possible to rotate through mouthpieces as they're proven unreliable. (And that's usually when clear dishonesty is found, not just plausibly-mistaken claims.) And anonymity is usually protected even when a source is found to having knowingly mislead journalists, which means a dishonest source is only burned for a single reporter or outlet and can go seek out a new audience. Multiply the number of mid-level employees at a major government body by the number of reputable news orgs and this starts to look completely sustainable.

It's something (reputable) news accountability groups have been upset about for years, but no one seems to have solved it. Conventional wisdom appears to be that publications are scared they'll lose source access completely if they start unmasking dishonest USG sources.

https://fair.org/home/should-media-expose-sources-who-lied-t...

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