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Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

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Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#71

A major problem with SSDs seems to be “firmware death” - where the flash chips are physically fine (or mostly fine), but the firmware (or firmware memory) has gotten corrupted due to some programming error, electrical glitch, or cosmic ray. I’ve had scores of older SSDs die after things like power outages and sudden shutdown events. This is super frustrating because the data is physically OK but the controller just i…

What's involved in recovering the data if the controller fails?

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#72

TL;DR Lack of noises makes SSD drives bad at motivating users to do backups or use redundant storage: they don't seem to be on the verge of catastrophic failure.

paying the premium for SSDs made me want to do backups more

I use arq w/ backblaze

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#73
post #41

"When a HD died early, you could also imagine undetected manufacturing flaws that finally gave way. With SSDs, at least in theory that shouldn't happen" Why shouldn't it? Isn't it just hardware too? "With spinning HDs, drives might die abruptly but you could at least construct narratives about what could have happened to do that" Why can't you do the same with SSDs? It feels like the author's main complaint is the fr…

"It feels like the author's main complaint is the frustration of not understanding SSD hardware as well." What is so frustrating about SSDs is how very poorly they compare to previous incarnations of solid state storage. Using Disk-On-Chip and/or IDE-pin-compatible CF cards, I had many, many devices in the field that lasted, mounted read-only, for decades An entire sect of the computing industry came to rely on these…

On modern MLC/TLC SSDs, read-only mode doesn't really exist. The NAND blocks must be re-programmed after a number of read accesses to mitigate read disturb. If anything, mounting read-only is probably a corner case, stressing the firmware's read disturb mitigation.

The tradeoff from worse read disturb characteristics is NAND that is 100x cheaper per GB than in 2000.

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#75
post #63

This is not a technological problem, it's a cultural one. These problems are easily fixed ("easily" by the standards of technical problems that regularly get fixed in other regimes). The reason they don't get fixed is that the customer reaction to failures like this is to rant at the mysterious storage gods that are making their lives miserable. Needless to say, there are no mysterious storage gods. These are artifac…

> Needless to say, there are no mysterious storage gods

What about Consus, the god who protected grain storage in the ancient Roman religion? [1]. Or Eopsin, the Korean goddess of storage? [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consus

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eopsin

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#76
post #50

A major problem with SSDs seems to be “firmware death” - where the flash chips are physically fine (or mostly fine), but the firmware (or firmware memory) has gotten corrupted due to some programming error, electrical glitch, or cosmic ray. I’ve had scores of older SSDs die after things like power outages and sudden shutdown events. This is super frustrating because the data is physically OK but the controller just i…

I have seen some weird issues with SSDs. I had an OCZ Vertex 2 die on me multiple times, but one thing that stood out most is that after a power cycle or complete system shutdown (note: reboots were just fine) everything I had done last time - install software, update Windows, create files - was gone. The state was reverted to before the time it booted. It was like my computer contained some kind of Reborn chip, exce…

[deleted]

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#77

A major problem with SSDs seems to be “firmware death” - where the flash chips are physically fine (or mostly fine), but the firmware (or firmware memory) has gotten corrupted due to some programming error, electrical glitch, or cosmic ray. I’ve had scores of older SSDs die after things like power outages and sudden shutdown events. This is super frustrating because the data is physically OK but the controller just i…

What's involved in recovering the data if the controller fails?

just based on having seen data recovered from other flash devices, and the advertising copy of these devices:

hot-air rework to lift all the flash chips off and get them hooked up to something (probably custom) that can read them.

if the controller was encrypting everything that went to flash, you also get to try and find the key in the controller's memory.

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#78
having recently swapped 100tb of spinning media to ssd I am awaiting the first failures. now being a business environment it is all mirrored capacity. so I guess my question is from the article, are they running on a single device? No raid or mirror?

I am loathe to even keep my personal data at home on one drive and since I use an iMac that requires me to have time machine as mirroring/etc of the internal drive is not truly possible; at least I did not spend enough time researching it

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#79

Maybe I am being overly simplistic, but shouldn't it not matter? Who in the modern age doesn't back up everything all the time? Don't we all operate with the assumption these things are going to blow at any time? 90%+ of my data is on cloud storage now anyway. When a SSD goes out don't you just chunk it in the drawer of old drives that you promise to take to the disposal center this weekend (and never do) and then ta…

It matters. The existence of backups don't change that. If you have a failure (be it hardware, software, or PEBKAC) that requires you to restore from a backup, that means that you're going to suffer system downtime and you'll have to be spending your own personal time restoring things. Those are not cheap, and we haven't even talked about the cost of new hardware.

Re: Why I'm usually unnerved when modern SSDs die on us

#80
post #37
post #3

I don't know why my hard drives died either. And while a physical motor breaking is more tangible, a contact wearing out is also imagineable. I don't really care why ssds or hdds die, I care that they do and therefore I have backups (well, ideally I would). I've had spinning rust fail on me while I was sitting at it and it didn't help me save it, it might as well have been dead in zero seconds.

I don't really care why hard drives die either, but I like that, more often than not, I get some warning. SMART logs, or weird kernel complaints, in my experience, are frequent precursors. I'm a little scared about my new SSDs that have replaced a few rust-spinners in our data center.

That's the big difference for me. Drive's making tictictick sounds? Kernel log full of bigScaryErrorsLikeThis? It's time to ditch that disk before the disk ditches you. Make it happen. Panic-Backup if you need to. etc.

Every SSD failure I've had, the failure mode was "what SSD?"

Now, I realise most people should ponder their backup regime before the tictictick, not after. But as the phrase goes "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second-best is now." The SSD equivalent is "The be- nope, too late."

They're just terribly unforgiving, which doesn't fit with a culture that values cure over prevention.

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