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EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

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Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#161

Post by timrichard »

raverbashing wrote: post #88
berkmayer wrote: post #28

People underestimate what a big pain in the ass internet has been for the EU bureaucrats in the last 5 years. They can't just remove users freedom in one hit, they need to do it slowly: cookie laws, gdpr, copyright. And of course they always put a little bit of "sense" in every rule. This is a classic tactic that has been used by State organizations for maybe thousands of years. You can find examples in ancient Rome,…

> had a way to get rid of laws made using this tactic, the nations under EU's rule don't "Under EU rule" the EU is made by its member countries, as opposed to what some people say. Of course they do. It's an EU directive. Some countries already said they don't intent to move forward with it (Italy and Poland come to mind) > when it comes to getting rid of EU's rules you need multiple good cycles of elections in numer…

> Of course they do. It's an EU directive. Some countries already said they don't intent to move forward with it (Italy and Poland come to mind)

You make it sound as if Directives are optional. They aren't. They must be implemented by a deadline set by the Commission, or the member state is open to legal action either domestically or in EU court.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#162

Post by LoSboccacc »

gtsteve wrote: post #147
LoSboccacc wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue with GDPR is that it's extremely under specified and we're left to educate guesses to find out what and what's not illegal until the matter is settled in courts. For example a service provider can collect emails under the Article 6(b) clause to provide its services. But what happens when a user exits the contract? There's a conflict there because the provider need to keep hold of the email (to avoid us…

You can keep hold of data for a good business reason such as the one you stated. A hash of the e-mail address is probably reasonable, but you might also want some logic to detect users who use g-mail style addresses, i.e. "exampleuser+label@gmailcom", which allows one gmail account to have many forms of the e-mail address, in which case hashes don't work. This is another class of an example I have seen cited around f…

> A hash of the e-mail address is probably reasonable

I even sourced why it isn't but eh, who read post they're replying to, right?

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#164

Post by raverbashing »

timrichard wrote: post #161
raverbashing wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> had a way to get rid of laws made using this tactic, the nations under EU's rule don't "Under EU rule" the EU is made by its member countries, as opposed to what some people say. Of course they do. It's an EU directive. Some countries already said they don't intent to move forward with it (Italy and Poland come to mind) > when it comes to getting rid of EU's rules you need multiple good cycles of elections in numer…

> Of course they do. It's an EU directive. Some countries already said they don't intent to move forward with it (Italy and Poland come to mind) You make it sound as if Directives are optional. They aren't. They must be implemented by a deadline set by the Commission, or the member state is open to legal action either domestically or in EU court.

You are correct (once the directive is approved), but there are also degrees and (limited) changes that can be put by member states.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#165

Post by rdxm »

To be sure, we do some pretty stupid shit in the US, for example a senior Senator having no fucking clue how FB makes money.

But of late the EU is looking like it's taking the lead in peak dumpster-fire status. I can't imagine anyone with an IQ above freezing temperature and a heart beat buying into the Article 13 stuff, it's simply mind-blowing.

Of course the porn filter stuff in the UK is a close second in stupidity.

And let's not forget our Five-Eyes friends in Australia with the fantasy land crypto backdoor legislation.

All of this leads one to the conclusion that what's needed in representative government is not term-limits, but age limits. The Septa and Octogenarians running things are not mentally capable of comprehending the world as it actually exists. People need to know when it's "time to go fishing"....

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#166

Post by throwaway123mmm »

johnchristopher wrote: post #157
quanticle wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greatest irony is EU regulators whining about the dominance of Google, Facebook, etc, while passing regulations like this which make it impossible for anyone to compete with their ilk. Google and Facebook will have no trouble building the automated filters that are mandated by this legislation. The impact of this will be felt entirely by smaller companies with either will shut down, or, more likely, will never be…

It was also believed that Facebook and Google were GDPR ready and only them could be. That's not what happened.

That's the case though.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#167

Post by hartator »

Loic wrote: post #90
munchbunny wrote: post #4

I tend to put GDPR and this Copyright bill in different camps. The copyright bill is insane. GDPR is... also a bit insane, but the hard parts shine light on what we probably should have been doing which are now hard to do because we've spent so long ignoring the ethical elephant in the room. GDPR is very far from perfect, but I think it's still directionally good. The copyright bill is just bad.

GDPR is very good in fact. If you read through it as a person, it is basically the way we should have operated from the start. Reading it while wearing the hat of my role in my company, I can see all the points where we are collecting data without a well defined process and clear understanding from the end users. It is hard to fix this, but it is for my own good as a person.

The “Right to be Forgotten” is clearly in contradiction with the first though.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#168

Post by timrichard »

raverbashing wrote: post #164
timrichard wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course they do. It's an EU directive. Some countries already said they don't intent to move forward with it (Italy and Poland come to mind) You make it sound as if Directives are optional. They aren't. They must be implemented by a deadline set by the Commission, or the member state is open to legal action either domestically or in EU court.

You are correct (once the directive is approved), but there are also degrees and (limited) changes that can be put by member states.

Confused about how that would work in practice.

I took a cursory look out of interest :

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

I can see how Directive wording is either taken verbatim ('copy-out'), or brought into harmony with existing laws to avoid duplication.

Not sure how something could be implemented 50% (like a degree), or parts ignored completely.

Also, wouldn't any limited changes have to be approved at EU parliament level before being ratified as a Directive in the first place?

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#169

Post by FranzFerdiNaN »

throwaway123mmm wrote: post #166
johnchristopher wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was also believed that Facebook and Google were GDPR ready and only them could be. That's not what happened.

That's the case though.

It isnt. Being GDPR ready is not that hard. It just takes time and resources, but following the law always takes that. And leave it to businesses to complain about anything and everything.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#170

Post by nicky0 »

andybak wrote: post #95
WA wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame the web devs and their bad implementation of it. It’s really not that hard to get right (unless of course you don’t really want to comply).

Agree that getting the region wrong is sloppy. But how does one avoid asking every time when cookies are blocked? What other implementation option is possible? This is what cookies are for .

I wish browsers had a "do track" option which told every website: yes I consent, do what you want, just don't show me a popup. These cookies banners and GDPR popups have ruined the web.
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