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Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

nytimes.com

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Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#161

Post by zanny »

reaperducer wrote: post #152
zanny wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I at least get a substantial value add to my life having Google track me everywhere. It might be overly sentimental but being able to see everywhere I've been in the last ~seven years on Maps feels to me like one of the great innovations Google has made. If people accept Google will sell that data to subsidize the cost of persisting it you get a permanent record of everywhere you've gone. I think its cool to have. It…

being able to see everywhere I've been in the last ~seven years on Maps feels to me like one of the great innovations Google has made. Your phone is perfectly capable of making this map on its own. Why does it have to share all that information with the Google mothership? Apple's phones do the same thing, but don't send your personal location history to Apple. (Though I believe the history isn't a full seven years.)

I haven't used the same phone for 7 years. The value add is that its automatic and remotely archived. I've already been burned by lost / wiped / bricked devices without recovering all the photos / video / data on it before it became inoperable. I still have an iphone 3gs with my last photos with my late grandmother on it that I've tried to frankenstein back to life long enough over a usb connection to just grab the photos with no success.

I've tried a lot of automatic backup solutions like syncthing but have had myriad performance or inconsistency problems over the years.

Its tied to my Google account rather than the physical device, and its not data I need to manually somehow keep consistent across devices because Google does it for me.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#162

Post by zanny »

mindslight wrote: post #136
zanny wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I at least get a substantial value add to my life having Google track me everywhere. It might be overly sentimental but being able to see everywhere I've been in the last ~seven years on Maps feels to me like one of the great innovations Google has made. If people accept Google will sell that data to subsidize the cost of persisting it you get a permanent record of everywhere you've gone. I think its cool to have. It…

Stating it as a direct trade for the service being no charge is fallacious in that Google does not actually give you the option to just pay money for the service/storage and skip the surveillance. Instead, the true price remains nebulous - with your "permanent record" continuing to grow and becoming ever more of a liability. It's certainly possible to develop user-centric software with the same functionality and poli…

I run Lineage on my phones, I always have the option to purge Google entirely and not let them track me. The choice is between spying vs money, its between spying or not being spied on.

I sympathize with the plight of those unknowingly being spied upon - I've had enlightening conversations with family members when I show them this very feature they weren't aware of on their Android devices - but it often feels like the demonization of Google treats it like nobody ever volunteers in. Because I definitely wouldn't pay for it, but its a nice service to have.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#163

Post by chii »

Tsubasachan wrote: post #134
bad_user wrote: post #9

iOS now forcing "While Using" option on all apps is the greatest thing ever. Before this, some apps where forcing the "Always" option on users. Uber and Waze come to mind. iOS also gives you a warning from time to time about apps using your location in the background. I think iOS right now has the best location management. --- People are surprised when seeing the Activity section in Google's account details, then fre…

If carriers let outsiders buy cell tower data there is literally nothing you can do except switch on airplane mode.

Or, complain to the local gov't/FCC/consumer ombudsman that carriers are selling this data without consent from the consumer. Embroil them in a PR nightmare. Make it costly.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#164

Post by [deleted] »

bad_user wrote: post #9

iOS now forcing "While Using" option on all apps is the greatest thing ever. Before this, some apps where forcing the "Always" option on users. Uber and Waze come to mind. iOS also gives you a warning from time to time about apps using your location in the background. I think iOS right now has the best location management. --- People are surprised when seeing the Activity section in Google's account details, then fre…

[deleted]

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#165

Post by zaroth »

sa1 wrote: post #146
zaroth wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is very much still present in the latest version on my iPhone anyway. I still see a big prompt to turn on Web & App Activity I order to “Get the most from Maps” — which includes saving “Work” and “Home” favorites. Boo :-(

You don't see that prompt if you aren't signed in.

Son of a .... &%$!

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#167

Post by velosol »

llampx wrote: post #8
fouc wrote: post #6

That reminded me to check my privacy > location services settings and look for any apps that have "Always" and change them to "While Using" only

I wish there was something similar on Android. I used to keep my Location services off but needed to switch it on for Google Maps and HERE maps so I got lazy and leave it always on. Its shameful that Android 2.3 let you have more control of your phone than Android 8.1.

You can use Automate or other apps to enable/disable Location only when you have a specified app in the foreground. It's a bit clunky because it relies on enabling GPS each time you bring the app up (which also means you get a 'Can Google keep all your location data all the time?' prompt or two). It also relies on Accessibility services which might go away or be more heavily curtailed in the future.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#168

Post by random878 »

badpun wrote: post #155
random878 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people do care enough to stop but they don't know how I'd guess the vast majority of HN users will be primarily users of Windows/Mac OS and proprietary software. Many HN users will use GMail, Google Maps, Google Play Services... an so on. Are we going to pretend that your average HN user doesn't understand the pros/cons of their software choices? Personally, I'd prefer to credit them with the intelligence to have ma…

> I now use a dumbphone because I dislike smartphones for other reasons. There are many, many successful people who can function perfectly well without the latest iPhone. I'm curious - how do you handle navigation (both in car and on foot) with a smartphone?

Without a smartphone?

In the car I have a Garmin satnav unit which I can use. They are great quality and I paid about £20 or 30 for it used. I strongly dislike this modern trend for using phones in cars. They are too distracting (I hate this modern trend of huge tablet interfaces in cars for the same reason).

On foot... I honestly don't need maps that much. I struggle to recall ever needing to have live directions while walking. I have a good in-built navigation brain through - probably from growing up doing lots of hiking, orienteering, and so on. I also think that reliance on blindly following a screen stunts the development of such skills. I find I have a very good mental map of my city compared to younger friends.

I spent my teens and 20s without technology like this. I find it quite depressing when this question gets raised.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#169

Post by wklauss »

random878 wrote: post #51
code4tee wrote: post #16

“We’re not doing anything not disclosed in our terms of service.” is rapidly becoming a no longer acceptable answer to consumers. Don’t tell me a weather app needs to know my location all the time to give me the best weather info then sell my location to the highest bidder. Don’t tell me that buried in some 20 pages of leagalese in your Ts&Cs is some vague references that make this “legal.”

I would respectfully disagree. It is not acceptable to roughly the amount of people (and I include myself) who make a deliberate and self conscious decision to oppose it. This is a small, small group. I have a phone with Replicant OS, which puts me within a niche group of an already niche group (those willing to install alternative OS and strip Google on their phone). In a wider computing sense - what percentage of H…

> The general public are apathetic at best.

They are not and impact and buzz around articles like this show it. General public does not know enough about technology to understand the ramifications of what they do. For some it might be shocking to know it is this easy to reuse location data for other purposes, or that by mixing different data points, you can de-anonymize pretty much anyone. These are concepts that are clear when you work with or like technology, but are not natural and need to be explained and learned.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#170

Post by catacombs »

I would love for someone from The Times who worked on this story to share the source of their data.

No one on Twitter nor in their interview on The Daily answered my main question: What was the source?

Sure, they don't want to reveal private information about the people they highlighted, but what about the millions of dots they plotted on the map?

That data came from somewhere. Did someone leak it? Did The Times buy it? Some transparency would be great.

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