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Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

nytimes.com

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Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#81
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, the language is annoying and they've also been guilty of dark patterns for getting users to re-enable it. But being an EU citizen, I'm confident that they can't turn it on, legally, without explicit permission.

They can't legally, but for them to stop someone has to go through the process of proving this in court.

Where I live there are consumer protection state agencies that handle the suing for you, if the case is strong enough. You just have to file a complaint and I've had great success in the past.

And GDPR is taken seriously, the EU requiring and sponsoring agencies that check for compliance in all EU countries.

Don't know how it is in the U.S. but I imagine that at the very least you can group with others in class action lawsuits, such that the effort of any one individual will be lower.

As long as it is illegal of course, otherwise you don't have a case. I heard California is adopting something similar to the GDPR too.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#82
The next thing I want Apple to do: If an app will request location services, it must: 1. Have a specific publicly available URL that contains all "location data" terms, conditions, and privacy information. 2. Monitor that URL and reset the permission dialog if the URL ever changes. 3. Immediately disable location services for that app if the URL disappears.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#83
post #76
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree on Google being entirely transparent about tracking location, especially if you run Android + Google Play Services. I have a tablet (Pixel C) that runs LineageOS + Google Play Services and a Phone (Nexus 5x) that runs LineageOS vanilla (no MicroG, no UnifiedNLP, no Google Play Services). Some things I have noted: - When you install MicroG/Google Play Services, they take over location services…

>if I disable location and then reenable it when I have moved more than 20-30 miles, the GPS has to reacquire the signal and can take up to 2 minutes (I also tried it when I drove several hundred miles, it took several minutes to reacquire). This is indicative of the GPS module being off totally. This was not so when it had Google Play Services on, it was able to reacquire my location extremely quickly, sometimes alm…

Heh, interesting. My assumption is that even network assisted GPS is a part of AOSP versus Play Service. This assumption was that UnifiedNLP [1] scans for networks/cell towers and correlates it to location, it does not appear to implement networked assisted GPS.

[1] https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_UnifiedNlp

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would respectfully disagree. It is not acceptable to roughly the amount of people (and I include myself) who make a deliberate and self conscious decision to oppose it. This is a small, small group. I have a phone with Replicant OS, which puts me within a niche group of an already niche group (those willing to install alternative OS and strip Google on their phone). In a wider computing sense - what percentage of H…

> Contrary to popular opinion, people are not ignorant to the behaviour of tech giants - they just don't care enough to stop. Contrary to your* opinion, people do care enough to stop but they don't know how. Tech giants have insinuated themselves into literally every aspect of their lives by abusing the lack of knowledge of the users. Now, they don't see a way out without drastic change. How can you get a job if you…

>people do care enough to stop but they don't know how

I'd guess the vast majority of HN users will be primarily users of Windows/Mac OS and proprietary software. Many HN users will use GMail, Google Maps, Google Play Services... an so on.

Are we going to pretend that your average HN user doesn't understand the pros/cons of their software choices? Personally, I'd prefer to credit them with the intelligence to have made a balance and reasoned decision (albeit one I fundamentally disagree with).

This trickles down to less tech savvy users too. Many of my colleagues in Medicine are more than aware of such issues due to rules and regulation on data storage and the like. They know, for example, why patient data should never be on Google Drive or GMail. They still continue to use those services for personal use, despite being aware, because they simply aren't sufficiently motivated to change their habits. GMail is familiar, and hence easy, so why switch to ProtonMail (for example)?

>How can you get a job if you don't have a phone? How can you get a job when literally every affordable phone tracks you?

I have a very good career and have used Replicant OS and Lineage OS. I now use a dumbphone because I dislike smartphones for other reasons. There are many, many successful people who can function perfectly well without the latest iPhone.

>People that say that consumers don't care enough to stop is living in their own bubble insulated from real people.

Please don't resort to ad hominem attacks on Hacker News. It is uncalled for, and there are more appropriate ways to put your point across.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#87

Any tips for avoiding location sharing on Android?

I believe as long as you connect to WIFIs that are already geolocated by other people's phones, you are in.

Uncloaked WIFI probes also can expose you to stalker routers.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#89
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree on Google being entirely transparent about tracking location, especially if you run Android + Google Play Services. I have a tablet (Pixel C) that runs LineageOS + Google Play Services and a Phone (Nexus 5x) that runs LineageOS vanilla (no MicroG, no UnifiedNLP, no Google Play Services). Some things I have noted: - When you install MicroG/Google Play Services, they take over location services…

A-GPS is a feature. It exists because GPS is so slow.

Also because GPS is unreliable in cities with tall buildings that obscure the satellites. This is important in the case of needing to make a 911 call. I don't know what the laws are around mobile phones needing to be able to place a 911 call (I know you shouldn't have to guess a passcode to do it, or at least that used to be the case), but it's possible that some of these 'location-on' things are to comply with the law.

Re: Companies use smartphone locations to help advertisers and even hedge funds

#90
post #59

Hedge funds have been using location data to ‘predict’ corporate earnings for at least 5 years, that I know of. There’s also speculation that they use the data to identify locations of VIPs and where they’re going (by clustering activities of the VIP’s entourage). It’s unfortunate that news organizations as reputable and prominent as the NYT only get on these stories so late in the game. This information would have b…

Because the hedge funds are by definition not insiders? They are literally not using non-public corporate data at all. Insider trading laws don’t exist to make sure there isn’t information assymetry, the market is all about that assymetry. Insider trading laws are about insiders stealing from other shareholders.

Well, it is non-public data. I once spoke with a lawyer to see if I could legally use location data to do the same thing (for instance, it’s easy to correlate changes in activity at certain retailers with quarterly earnings), and I was told it’s risky.
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