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Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

theatlantic.com

111–120 of 358 posts

Re: Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

#111

>“The sensation of ‘being well-off,’” [...] “is not about fulfilling a childhood dream of buying a sailboat or something; feeling wealthy is about comparison with others in your reference group When there is a debate about increasing % of taxes further for higher income (often in the name of redistribution, reducing inequalities), I often hear the argument that it will reduce the motivation for the higher income peop…

Rich peoples' reference group isn't limited to a single country though. There is no way we can apply the same rules to all, unless there is a new global order I haven't heard of.

See: the disaster of the US yatch manufacturing tax

Re: Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

#112

There was a well written comment on Reddit a few years back about how your life changes at different levels of wealth: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s9u0s/what_do_i... The main gist was that in the $10-30 million range you can live a comfortable life without having to worry about finances again. In the $30-100 million range you can start doing "rich people" things like have a private jet (though this m…

> in the $10-30 million range you can live a comfortable life without having to worry about finances again This statement strikes me as very disconnected from the reality that the vast majority of people on this planet live in, and honestly, a little bit irritating. I'm well aware that many here on HN would be millionaires, but as somebody who grew up in poverty and is now a full-time uni student with no savings in t…

This is a fairly interesting comment for me. I was exactly in your situation.

I had no money in Uni. My parents were boat people with no money either.

Not long after Uni, I had 100K in my account. Comfy, no mansion, no car.

The first thing I spent more than a couple of grand on ever was dental work. Felt great to fix the crossbite.

But here's the thing. You could just be alone your whole life, no wife, no kids. I've got friend who do that, and indeed they can live on near minimum wage and be perfectly happy.

Once you decide you want a wife and kids, the budget changes. By a lot. You'll need a bigger place to live. You'll want to send the kids to private school. You'll need a bigger car.

This can easily add up to several million depending on exactly what you mean.

For the record I did go on to buy an expensive sports car. Not worth it, surprise surprise.

Re: Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders

It actually used to be one of the top tabs but was removed when PG realized that people trying to score points off each other hurt the quality of discussion. IIRC it was the same time that point totals for each comment were hidden from everyone but the author.

Maybe it would be a good idea to hide your own total karma too. It's always right there on the top right, and I can't help looking at it. And I feel happy and proud when that number has gone up, and upset when it has gone down.

Much more useful would be notifications of people responding to my comments, or maybe even people continuing discussions that I'm interested in. It's easy to lose track of those if I haven't posted in them.

Re: Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN will shadowban your account if you dont conform to popular opinion enough Aside from saying unpopular things, a net negative karma will also do it, which is a reflection of the same outcome Always check your post history from an incognito browser to see if others can see it

> HN will shadowban your account if you dont conform to popular opinion enough Bollocks.

Sometimes unaccepted observations can come across as wildly outlandish or insensitive depending on the topic, and initialize the fallible moderators as well

While other things conform to the prevalent opinion and masquarade as insightful high quality comments

there is a reason we can still see the now-laughable criticisms of dropbox

Re: Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the $10-30 million range you can live a comfortable life without having to worry about finances again This statement strikes me as very disconnected from the reality that the vast majority of people on this planet live in, and honestly, a little bit irritating. I'm well aware that many here on HN would be millionaires, but as somebody who grew up in poverty and is now a full-time uni student with no savings in t…

> I'd never own a Ferrari, but why would I need to? Because you were raised poor, you still are poor, so your views on life do not revolve around one of the finest and most exclusive automobiles money can buy. You've never been in a position to be even remotely close to owning a Ferrari, so your brain has ignored the value they offer. Yes. Driving a high speed status symbol can be rewarding. It can start conversation…

> But, what doesn't in life?

Studying. I learn (not skim or read but study like I did in uni) new things all the time for the past 30 years and it does not get boring while it costs very little to do so (I do not need diplomas or certificates but I am hard on myself and I do do exams if I can find them like it is real).

Re: Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the $10-30 million range you can live a comfortable life without having to worry about finances again This statement strikes me as very disconnected from the reality that the vast majority of people on this planet live in, and honestly, a little bit irritating. I'm well aware that many here on HN would be millionaires, but as somebody who grew up in poverty and is now a full-time uni student with no savings in t…

100k * 10% = 10k/year. 10% is about the best return you can count on (very optimistically) I don't know what country you live in, but 10k in the US, even for a single person, would put you far below the poverty line. No way you could afford that dental work after you pay rent on that. And let's not even talk about all of the other huge expenses that will come up later in your life. $10m * 3% = $300k/year That's a hig…

That only makes sense if you imagine living an entirely different life. What most people need is $1 million in addition to their future normal income. That gives you the opportunities for safety, career advancement and quality of life that you need to have a good version of the life most people are living.

Of course if you don't expect to invest, work or advance everything is going to be have to paid for up front and you will need a lot of money. But that isn't realistic for most people. It is very expensive to be a poor millionaire, but relatively cheap to be modestly wealthy.

Re: Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be very surprised if you could live worry-free with the investment proceeds of $100,000. You would have to earn 18% a year on that on average just to hit the poverty line in the US, and a more likely result would be living on 1/3rd of that. At just 6k/yr you would have food covered if you ate practically, or perhaps rent covered if you lived very modestly, but not both. Assuming that you meant something close…

> I would be very surprised if you could live worry-free with the investment proceeds of $100,000. I think you have made the assumption that I would stop working. That might be the goal of many people, but it's not mine, and it's not how I would define being comfortable. Aside from that, yes, I was using a fairly arbitrary number to make a point. I hadn't done the math. Which, here on HN, was probably a mistake. But…

$100k wouldn’t be a reliable safety net for long. A good network of people who trust you to execute reliably is worth way more than $100k — see: business owners who have repeatedly survived bankruptcy.

I understand how ridiculous this may sound. There’s a presupposition of access to capital / employment. A large chunk of the world doesn’t have access to that, to no fault of their own. But don’t discount yourself that quickly — a non-trivial amount of people have created and captured an insane amount of value. It doesn’t seem entirely fair, and to be honest, sometimes it isn’t.

Re: $100k, completely sane and reasonable expenses add up quickly. You’ll be surprised what costs rear their heads as you have more liquidity. You’re better off being broke while you’re in University and, once you’ve finished, learning the ropes and demanding compensation for your productive hours. You can calibrate your income against researched market rates / cohorts of friends if you’d like to optimize, and nobody will fault you for it — in fact, it’s expected.

You’ll figure this all out but for now it doesn’t matter: everybody here is giving you sound advice (based on pre-assumption of: University-educated individual), you just can’t see past the iron wall of academia yet. It’s a much bigger world than you can imagine, with a lot of opportunity to generate wealth if that’s what you’re interested in. (It doesn’t have to be, but some sort of optimization in this direction is helpful for general contentment given your pre-supposed opportunities: not everybody gets to attend college.)

Re: Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

#119
> feeling wealthy is about comparison with others in your reference group

I guess the solution is to not hang out with other rich people, don't move to a wealthy neighborhood, and just don't care about your social status. "Ignorance is bliss".

I would be very happy if I had $200k in passive/investment income. That would be a SaaS company worth ~$1.5M, or ~$6M invested in index funds. If I ever get there, I hope I can resist the temptation to just keep going and waste my life trying to make more and more money. I just want a small house, unlimited free time, and no responsibilities. Then I'd like to spend time on hobbies, non-profit work, and maybe start new companies to solve problems (but not for the money.)

There must be lots of people on HN who are multi-millionaires from startup exits. Did you notice a change in yourself, and you started to want more money?

Re: Why Aren’t Rich People Happy With the Money They Have?

#120
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's generally assumed that more money equals better physical health, but the psychological aspects are very underrated. Money equals certainty for a lot of people. It lets them count on certain things always being there. Having your own home, respect, clout totally builds your confidence and lets you face life with positivity. You can afford to be wrong more often, so you don't mind sticking your neck out -…

I wouldn't be surprised if the levels of inequality are negatively impacting innovation. There has to be an optimum level but I don't think we are anywhere near it in the Anglo-sphere.

Oh, that's a given. Your instinct here is right.

Has to do with society functioning as a genetic algorithm: look into a-life like the work of Danny Hillis. You don't make gains when one 'solution' dominates over all others, that's called a plateau. Currently we're at a very low plateau where meddling with finance instruments or collecting rents of various kinds is the only effective way to wealth, and where most innovation will just get you broke and out of the game, because the risk of failing is far too severe.

In history we've had far better conditions for innovation (for instance, the dawn of personal computers) when people were generally more well-off but the disparity between extremes (Gini) was far smaller. This wasn't true for all populations, but I mean the populations that supported technological innovation.

You have to have whole thriving populations of individuals with bits of the eventual answer, including bits that aren't in themselves self-sufficient, in order for crossover and inter-pollination to give you new heights of innovation. Part of that is challenging (disrupting) existing 'best answers', something that's already in the DNA of silicon valley. Right now the best answer is just to get wealthy by any means necessary, preferably by collecting rents and bringing nothing to the table (to work or develop new things would be redirecting energy that can be used to just collect rent and extort money out of the system: it's disadvantageous to make anything new or better when you can engineer the existing system to your benefit)

There is no way Gini inequality helps innovation at all. Innovation has to do with populations of actors that are all reasonably capable of addressing a problem, not seeking a single optimal individual who will do all your innovating for you. Our incentives are literally backwards.

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