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Can Dirt Save the Earth?

nytimes.com

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Re: Can Dirt Save the Earth?

#21

Post by monktastic1 »

> This view ran counter to a lot of conservationist thought, as well as a great deal of evidence. Grazing has been blamed for turning vast swaths of the world into deserts. But from Creque’s perspective, how you graze makes all the difference.

This is the idea behind this fantastic TED talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI

We're largely focused on high-tech ways to "fix" the Earth, but the Earth has known how to do it since forever. Finding ways to use her own intelligence seems like a great idea.

Re: Can Dirt Save the Earth?

#22

Post by empath75 »

scumblr wrote: post #4

I love reading about clever ideas like this, but at the same time, I'm leery of the notion that we can fix the climate at the last minute, a narrative that stems from the late capitalist imperative to innovate. We don't need to innovate to find a solution; we need to act.

We’re not going to act. I’ve come around to accepting that. We need to plan on what we do if we don’t reduce carbon emissions because it’s too late for that already.

Even if everyone is driving electric cars that’s just going to lower the price of gas and people will put it to other uses.

Re: Can Dirt Save the Earth?

#23

Post by kiliantics »

monktastic1 wrote: post #21

> This view ran counter to a lot of conservationist thought, as well as a great deal of evidence. Grazing has been blamed for turning vast swaths of the world into deserts. But from Creque’s perspective, how you graze makes all the difference. This is the idea behind this fantastic TED talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI We're largely focused on high-tech ways to "fix" the Earth, but the Earth has known…

I remember being blown away by that video but apparently there has been some criticism of Savory's work. Searching his name returns a few critical articles such as this one:

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2017-2-march-april/feature...

He has responded to some of them and sticks to his claims. It seems the picture is very complicated and we haven't figured it out just yet.

Re: Can Dirt Save the Earth?

#25

Post by rsync »

ars wrote: post #2

Nicely written article, but the author needs to have a conversation with a chemist on the difference between carbon, carbon dioxide, and hydrocarbons. The author calls all of them "carbon", making for confusing reading. Anyway if you need a summary: Spray cow manure on fields to encourage plant grown. Done right you can actually increase topsoil, burying older plants under newer ones and store hydrocarbons there. Bas…

"Spray cow manure on fields to encourage plant grown. Done right you can actually increase topsoil, burying older plants under newer ones and store hydrocarbons there."

Fair enough, but can that process be achieved with net-negative carbon emissions ?

I live in rural Marin County which is featured in this article and is (currently) ground zero for this kind of research. There are several ranches near mine that have adopted these practices specifically to combat climate change.[1]

After you raise the cattle (with all of the carbon emissions that entails) and then transport their manure in a large ICE truck (but not large enough to get economies of fuel efficiency like a semi on a highway would have) and then use a big tractor and/or bulldozer to unload and move it ...

You've got four or six or eight guys there at the ranch doing the labor and of course they don't live there - and the reality of Marin County land values and rents dictates that they probably live an hour or more away in Santa Rosa or Vacaville or worse. And of course they drive as large of pickup trucks as their paycheck will possibly support to transport their single body to that worksite.

And then you have to maintain the process by tilling or turning the material - again with tractors or bulldozers and again with more workers who drive to the site.

It sounds like I'm getting unfair and nit-picking here but that's the whole point: the exercise makes no sense unless it is carbon net-negative so you have to add all of these costs to the ledger.

I would be overjoyed if it penciled out, but very skeptical that it does.

[1] https://www.marincarbonproject.org/

Re: Can Dirt Save the Earth?

#26

Post by ciconia »

monkeydreams wrote: post #16

Australian farmers, suffering through yet another "unexpectedly intensive" drought, could learn a lot from this. I mean they won't, but they could. Instead they will whinge and complain and put their hands out and watch their stock die and, when rain falls again, they will take the government-aid cheques and overstock their land and continue the laziest, dumbest form of farming they could import from the cooler, wett…

That's exactly the mindset of Farmers here in Burgundy, France. We just had one of the dryest summers on record - we're still running a water deficit. Farmer's response: demand government subsidies!

Re: Can Dirt Save the Earth?

#27

Post by strainer »

rsync wrote: post #25
ars wrote: post #2

Nicely written article, but the author needs to have a conversation with a chemist on the difference between carbon, carbon dioxide, and hydrocarbons. The author calls all of them "carbon", making for confusing reading. Anyway if you need a summary: Spray cow manure on fields to encourage plant grown. Done right you can actually increase topsoil, burying older plants under newer ones and store hydrocarbons there. Bas…

"Spray cow manure on fields to encourage plant grown. Done right you can actually increase topsoil, burying older plants under newer ones and store hydrocarbons there." Fair enough, but can that process be achieved with net-negative carbon emissions ? I live in rural Marin County which is featured in this article and is (currently) ground zero for this kind of research. There are several ranches near mine that have a…

Its being reviewed by The American Carbon Registry who seem to be experienced and meticulous. Details of the methodology here:

https://americancarbonregistry.org/carbon-accounting/standar...

Re: Can Dirt Save the Earth?

#28

Post by murrayb »

mooreds wrote: post #19

For a book length version of how soil can help the environment in many ways, I suggest "The Soil Will Save Us". http://www.kristinohlson.com/books/soil-will-save-us

Thanks for the recommendation, just ordered a copy for my wife as a Christmas present. She's a horticulturalist so I think she will love it.

Hacker News accidental Christmas gift shopping tips?

Re: Can Dirt Save the Earth?

#29

Post by triodan »

Doesn't the account in the article run counter to the narrative that cows are massive greenhouse gas producers? Is there an alternative to grazing that would not require cows?

Re: Can Dirt Save the Earth?

#30

Post by tourdownunder »

monkeydreams wrote: post #16

Australian farmers, suffering through yet another "unexpectedly intensive" drought, could learn a lot from this. I mean they won't, but they could. Instead they will whinge and complain and put their hands out and watch their stock die and, when rain falls again, they will take the government-aid cheques and overstock their land and continue the laziest, dumbest form of farming they could import from the cooler, wett…

There are a few Australian farmers onto what seems to me a similar approach including farmer turn author Charles Massy who published "Call of the Reed Warbler".

In the early chapters of the book Charles explains his story of going to university for a science degree though coming back to the farm soon after when his father passes. He listened to the experts selling the products on what to do for years before deciding it was no longer working and decided on another approach.

I don't think we can blame the farmers directly though instead big agriculture and how they manipulate the farmers and lobby the government to sell more product.

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