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Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

economist.com

241–250 of 270 posts

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#241
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone is different Very true. I added your disclaimer.

Not only is people different but what might be helpful for some, in others might create chronic issues. Killing of species of your gut microbiome (by eliminating foods) should probably not be somethig to take lightly.

True. But I eliminate foods out of necessity. Recently I stopped eating legumes as part of FODMAP diet and I see it makes a difference. I also suspect that we may be eating too much variety. I like for instance Fukuoka's approach to diet http://criticality.org/four-types-diet-masanobu-fukuoka/

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main counter is you're not choosing when everything is based on the proceeding event with the variables assigned at birth. Nothing is chance when understanding the universe is mechanical in a sense like a clock. Hard work is just a psychological pattern adapted from how you were conditioned with the mindset you developed by fate.

Determinism is an interesting question... we exist at a fascinating scale, in between lower orders significantly influenced by non-deterministic forces and higher orders where determinism seems to prevails. The chemical reactions driving cellular machinery is influenced by quantum randomness, while astronomical scales seem to be entirely deterministic (though chaotic). For example, radioactive decay influences both D…

You’re conditioned by society to subconsciously have comfort to the idea of free will and it cannot be rational to assume likelihood to it.

People theoretically assuming quantum mechanics is truly random and it may not necessarily be true. It may in fact be similar to everything else that follows determinism. Even if it’s perceived random by outside hidden variables and which are non-observable to our universe. It can still be deterministic by variables in another universe and where the outcomes trickle into our universe as perceived randomness.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#244

Since when autistic spectrum disorders were redefined and reformulated? They used to be genetic brain structure/biochemistry related disorders with certain impaired social behaviors (which could be diagnosed using DSM) as their symptoms . How it is possible to "study" anything about human genetic disorders in a such unrelated model as mice, which does not have any cortex and other major areas, including language rela…

Diagnosis of autism has never been based on specific genetic or biochemical causes or mechanisms. It is defined by its behavioral symptoms.

> which has different causes, and manifests itself on a different brain structure and is unrelated to any gut bacteria whatsoever

How do you know it has different causes, when the causes of autism have not been enumerated?

> Why this crap is considered to be a respectable science?

I'm glad you don't get to decide. Maybe this will turn out not to have any impact in humans, but why not let the research play out - that's science.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#245
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, almost no one in NA justice systems talks about evil. The causality between life events leading to crime is often ridiculously clear, and choice barely factors into it. Believing in evil is its own kind of privilege. I for one have now seen a lot of criminal cases, and I've only seen sick people and people following the path laid before them. No evil in sight, but the concept's very existence allows fo…

A lot of murderers are low socioeconomic status males, but the vast majority of low socioeconomic status males are not murderers. It seems a lot like there's a choice.

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Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#246
post #189
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amoral factors can be the cause of moral, amoral, or immoral behavior. That line is already in trouble because of genetics research, psychology research, etc showing…

Isn’t this only “trouble” if you think of legal penalties like imprisonment only as punishment for your choices? If you think about imprisonment differently, perhaps as a means to protect other people from future crimes, issues like gut biome and “free will” aren’t really relevant.

> If you think about imprisonment differently, perhaps as a means to protect other people from future crimes, issues like gut biome and “free will” aren’t really relevant.

They are very relevant, because then the question becomes "how do we best protect everyone, including the offender". It's highly unlikely that imprisonment is an appropriate medical treatment or harm minimization procedure for a medical condition.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#247

Wouldn't all of the autism cure cranks out there have gotten actual results other than dead children if this were true? Digestion and diet have kind of been a fixation for them along with them along with chelation - anything to avoid the heritability elephant in the room.

Diet itself seems pretty heritable, at least for children. Up to a certain age, we generally eat what our parents tell us to, and that is generally pretty similar to what they're eating.

It is environmental however and mutable. Wouldn't that imply that if the then the bad old day practice of 'take the developmentally disabled kid from her mother because she is clearly to blame - and into an institution' would have had a positive impact.

There should be ample opportunities for diet to change even earlier on - incidents that seem like they should add up to documented evidence if there was something there. I mean even with a case with complications like scurvy - the vitamin C couldn't be measured and it was there in fresh food but not most preserved food and why citrus were the examples that could retain it. Of course there was also some astounding utter refusal to learn there.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#248
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you find out?

I figured out that my problems were related to intestinal microflora because they became ten times worse after undergoing 3 courses of H. Pylori eradication therapy in the span of only a few months, and I never improved for years afterwards. That's the short version; in reality, I suffered for a decade and a half before I caught on that I could do something about it, and it took about 5 years after that to get any ki…

Hi! Thank you so much for sharing!

I'm suffering from somehing similar. Did you look into Candida? A lot of the symptoms sound very similar. H. Pylori antibiotics could have killed off good intestinal flora, causing candida overgrowth.

Could you describe what other changes did you make, aside from adding S. Boulardii? Diet, supplements, medications? What helped you the most?

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any statistics, but judging from the number of sites and blogs that have popped up that deal with similar conditions, this seems to be an increasingly common problem. It seems like you could now speak about brain fog and everyone would understand what you meant, and I don't think that was the case 15 years ago. I've only ever made 2 top-level comments related to this issue on HN and they have surprised m…

I think the conversation about that came up with chronic fatigue. These days it’s used to describe mild hangover-like states, mostly. What people with celiac suffer is more like the confusion that comes with multiple sclerosis. As far as other people’s ‘brain fog’ I think they’re referring to a much more mild condition. Self described sensitivity to gluten is on the rise. Possibly some gluten intolerance is on the ri…

I recently learned about epigenetics and it's mind blowing.

In a nutshell: the expression of a gene within an individual can change over their lives, and the changes can be inherited. There are multiple mechanisms of alteration and inheritance.

The field is still in very early stages of research, but here are some paraphrases from Wikipedia to hook you:

* Children born during the Dutch famine of 1944–45 were smaller than those born the year before the famine and the effects could last for two generations. They also were at increased risk of glucose intolerance in adulthood.

* Children of women who were abused during pregnancy were significantly more likely than others to have methylated glucocorticoid-receptor genes, which in turn change the response to stress, leading to a higher susceptibility to anxiety

* Male mice that participated in voluntary physical exercise resulted in offspring that had reduced fear memory and anxiety-like behavior in response to stress.

For further reading:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_i...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics_of_anxiety_and_str...

--- Pure conjecture ---

As an engineer, this sounds like coarse short-term evolution; a dimmer switch for various genetic functions which can improve offspring fitness relative to a sudden environmental change, possibly with negative side effects, until the environment stabilizes or genetics can adapt with new functionality.

Only now, our population is mixing over broad geographic areas subject to an unprecedented acceleration of environmental changes, with often no prior genetic training, as cultures shift towards sedentary, inside, less-social lifestyles that have fewer children at greater ages.

An inter-generational epigenetic analysis of celiac, autoimmune, and other "new" diseases could be ground breaking. I'm wondering to what degree they are emergent symptoms of possibly conflicting epigenetic adaptations accumulated over multiple generations. The timing is just so suspicious.

The mouse study of stress tolerance also suggests follow-up studies that may have fascinating political ramifications.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And therefore, it may (or may not) offer one in humans.

That's a vapid statement. Everything may or may not be a treatment for any ailment.

Context is important.

The post it replies to says it "may offer a treatment for autism in mice." The not-at-all vapid statement is that one should be cautious in that even if it works in mice, there are many examples where this did not transfer to working for humans.

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