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Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

economist.com

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Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#231

Post by vanderZwan »

test6554 wrote: post #116
gboudrias wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, almost no one in NA justice systems talks about evil. The causality between life events leading to crime is often ridiculously clear, and choice barely factors into it. Believing in evil is its own kind of privilege. I for one have now seen a lot of criminal cases, and I've only seen sick people and people following the path laid before them. No evil in sight, but the concept's very existence allows fo…

Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences. The kind of people who believe they had no choice are the worst because it shows a total lack of remorse for their selfish decisions. Phrases like “Look what YOU made me do” and “It’s societies fault” are warning signs that they learned nothing and you have a likely repeat offender on your hands.

> Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences.

You're missing the point: you don't always have a choice about which choices are given to you, and that has consequences too.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#233

Post by amelius »

abledon wrote: post #59
noetic_techy wrote: post #54

My thoery: I'm inclined to think the link in autism might be caused by the prevalence of C-section births not passing the proper gut microbiome to some kids who are also genetically more inclined to autism but only if the gut is screwed up at birth. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4464665/ Doctors nowadays do C-sections often for unnecessary reasons, such as expedience or shift changes or as a default be…

Also less women are breastfeeding, a process which also gives probiotics

Is there any data on breastfeeding versus autism rates?

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#234

Post by 75dvtwin »

75dvtwin wrote: post #163
test6554 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences. The kind of people who believe they had no choice are the worst because it shows a total lack of remorse for their selfish decisions. Phrases like “Look what YOU made me do” and “It’s societies fault” are warning signs that they learned nothing and you have a likely repeat offender on your hands.

I do not know how to express this in civilized terms. But I feel that biological parents that raised children, who later on become evil and take other people lives -- are responsible, some how. I am mentally, far from being contempt, with all these psychopaths (who (most of them), also have seen at some point in their lives, have seen a professional phycologist, regularly) -- go and kill defenseless kids or church/sy…

I am saying that serial murders, mass shooters & home grown terrorists had patterns and footprints -- that should, somehow have been detected by their parents and physiatrists.

I do not know how to detect this stuff, but I feel morally responsible , for behavior of my children, for example.

Why should I not be partially criminally liable for their misdeeds?

God forbid, a child drinks alcohol or smokes some chemical substance, then gets behind a wheel of a car -- and kills a family going to a picnic.

I am not even thinking of more serious premeditated horrible crimes.

As I said in the beginning of my post, I do not know how to express this correctly -- but I feel that there is more role (and accountability) that parents and doctors treating mental illness/behaviors -- should bear.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#235

Post by drieddust »

75dvtwin wrote: post #163
test6554 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences. The kind of people who believe they had no choice are the worst because it shows a total lack of remorse for their selfish decisions. Phrases like “Look what YOU made me do” and “It’s societies fault” are warning signs that they learned nothing and you have a likely repeat offender on your hands.

I do not know how to express this in civilized terms. But I feel that biological parents that raised children, who later on become evil and take other people lives -- are responsible, some how. I am mentally, far from being contempt, with all these psychopaths (who (most of them), also have seen at some point in their lives, have seen a professional phycologist, regularly) -- go and kill defenseless kids or church/sy…

That's bunch of balony. I have two children who are polar opposite in behaviour. How do you account for that?

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#236

Post by intralizee »

test6554 wrote: post #116
gboudrias wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, almost no one in NA justice systems talks about evil. The causality between life events leading to crime is often ridiculously clear, and choice barely factors into it. Believing in evil is its own kind of privilege. I for one have now seen a lot of criminal cases, and I've only seen sick people and people following the path laid before them. No evil in sight, but the concept's very existence allows fo…

Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences. The kind of people who believe they had no choice are the worst because it shows a total lack of remorse for their selfish decisions. Phrases like “Look what YOU made me do” and “It’s societies fault” are warning signs that they learned nothing and you have a likely repeat offender on your hands.

> Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences.

You're making the assumption of how your choice could have been anything different. That's an illusion and studying determinism is helpful in understanding why you're simply a biological input/output machine in a system being society. Even with the possibility of randomness existing as quantum mechanics suggests possible.. it wouldn't make a person have any choice. Personally I think quantum mechanics is just a result from a deterministic system that at this point in time is too complex for humans to analysis as determinism.

It's common knowledge that an outcome results from an action and maybe even consequences happen when the world is under the free will illusion. The problem is the actions were all based on the preceding outcomes and where nobody had any control.

> The kind of people who believe they had no choice are the worst because it shows a total lack of remorse for their selfish decisions

> Phrases like “Look what YOU made me do” and “It’s societies fault” are warning signs that they learned nothing and you have a likely repeat offender on your hands.

Ethics & morals help society strive for the best interest of humanity. The majority of society at any point in time, hasn't understood free will is an illusion and from my understanding of history. We're only capable of theorizing but from my experience, I have been able to remove resentment to persons who wronged me and because they had no control in how they became who they are with the actions they produced against me. I don't believe persons should be punished when they had no control. The best outcome is society learning how to prevent a similar unfavorable outcome and people rehabilitating the persons who were unfavorable by the universe to do a wrong.

I's a huge assumption to assume people will be repeat offenders under the belief of knowing free will is an illusion and when you're contrary to the ideology as you haven't been able to live under it for an extended period of time.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#237

Post by e40 »

vanderZwan wrote: post #231
test6554 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences. The kind of people who believe they had no choice are the worst because it shows a total lack of remorse for their selfish decisions. Phrases like “Look what YOU made me do” and “It’s societies fault” are warning signs that they learned nothing and you have a likely repeat offender on your hands.

> Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences. You're missing the point: you don't always have a choice about which choices are given to you , and that has consequences too.

Your reply and the parent, to me, encapsulate everything that is wrong with humans today. You are 100% right. The person to which you replied doesn't see the issue. This lack of empathy is causing so many cascading failures in human society.

(To the GP of this reply, you might have misunderstood. I'm not really talking about you, personally, just using this short conversation as an example. Please don't take it personally.)

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#239

Post by losteric »

intralizee wrote: post #130
losteric wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share a similar philosophy... that free will is choosing between the options we recognize given by our immutable past. Who we are is mostly an accumulation of chance events and responses running on autopilot. Most moments don't matter, some nudge us in different directions, others snowball into defining our eulogies. Hard work enables us to leverage chance events (if we recognize them) into some probability of succ…

The main counter is you're not choosing when everything is based on the proceeding event with the variables assigned at birth. Nothing is chance when understanding the universe is mechanical in a sense like a clock. Hard work is just a psychological pattern adapted from how you were conditioned with the mindset you developed by fate.

Determinism is an interesting question... we exist at a fascinating scale, in between lower orders significantly influenced by non-deterministic forces and higher orders where determinism seems to prevails.

The chemical reactions driving cellular machinery is influenced by quantum randomness, while astronomical scales seem to be entirely deterministic (though chaotic). For example, radioactive decay influences both DNA replication and planetary orbits (via heat-driven plate tectonics)... but it seems that any randomness is washed out by the sheer volume of matter at the planetary scale.

We sit right in between those orders. Our bodies are an interconnected web of non-deterministic cells cooperating to maintain higher-level order and some approximation of determinism. Obviously I can't say with certainty, but I find free will to be more likely than not.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#240

Post by thatthatis »

chapium wrote: post #10
salamanderman wrote: post #5

I'm not too keen on the discouragement against self experimentation at the end of the article in this case. Self experimentation has greatly improved insulin pump technology in the past few years, and this situation has much much less risk.

How good are most experiments with a sample size of 1? Can the data gathered be independently verified?

Let me phrase it backwards: how good is aggregate data that throws away outliers in a complex system that isn’t yet fully understood?
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