Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism • Hacker News Board

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#151

Post by hnuser1234 » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 1:22 AM UTC

orionsbelt wrote: post #77

gboudrias wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, almost no one in NA justice systems talks about evil. The causality between life events leading to crime is often ridiculously clear, and choice barely factors into it. Believing in evil is its own kind of privilege. I for one have now seen a lot of criminal cases, and I've only seen sick people and people following the path laid before them. No evil in sight, but the concept's very existence allows fo…

I tend to be a bleeding heart and agree that many cases of criminal behavior are mental illness or environment/circumstances, but I still think there is a spectrum of morality out there -- not sure what you mean by "evil" exactly, but certainly a spectrum where people can range from high on empathy and kindness to those who care much less about others and are more amoral or even sociopathic.

I agree, but let's go deeper... I'd wager is there is a way to rank "empathy/kindness" in a more objective way, and that the current social environment is distanced from that objectivity.

Now even if we could perfectly, objectively rank it, should we immediately jail the bottom 1/3/10%, or should we wait for them to commit a crime? Should we give lighter sentences to more empathetic people who commit crimes, assuming they had better reasons to do it?

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#152

Post by Ericson2314 » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 1:42 AM UTC

test6554 wrote: post #124

intralizee wrote: post #119

Free will is an illusion and thus choices don't exist.

If you assume free will is an illusion, then it would make more sense to treat those who threaten society as faulty machinery and scrap them. Assuming people can admit and learn from their mistakes means you can focus on rehabilitation and treat them with dignity.

Let's by clear why this is very flawed reasoning.

First, the argument is that if people do not have free will, they have no moral worth, yet society has moral worth. But no reason is given why society, composed of individuals rendered worthless, isn't also rendered worthless.

Secondarily, learning doesn't require free will, as empirally demonstrated by our pitiful machines today.

You have to state your axioms up front, and frankly the "news" of no free will is the greatest carte blanche to redesign morality anyways.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#153

Post by socceroos » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 1:42 AM UTC

baumgarn wrote: post #126

test6554 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres always a choice, and choices have consequences. The kind of people who believe they had no choice are the worst because it shows a total lack of remorse for their selfish decisions. Phrases like “Look what YOU made me do” and “It’s societies fault” are warning signs that they learned nothing and you have a likely repeat offender on your hands.

people can learn, but only after the fact.

That's not true though, is it.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#154

Post by impy » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 1:51 AM UTC

CM30 wrote: post #150

theprotocol wrote: post #2

Without S. Boulardii, I am a neurotic mess who can't digest anything at all nor think straight after eating anything, so I'm inclined to believe this hypothesis. I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amora…

> I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amoral factors can be the cause of moral, amoral, or immoral behavior. That line is already in trouble because of genetics research, psychology research, etc showing…

> That line is already in trouble because of genetics research, psychology research, etc showing that people's actions are less based on deliberate choice than they'd like to believe.

I'd like to know more about this. Do you have sources for these?

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#155

Post by Nasrudith » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 1:51 AM UTC

Wouldn't all of the autism cure cranks out there have gotten actual results other than dead children if this were true? Digestion and diet have kind of been a fixation for them along with them along with chelation - anything to avoid the heritability elephant in the room.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#156

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 1:56 AM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #155

Wouldn't all of the autism cure cranks out there have gotten actual results other than dead children if this were true? Digestion and diet have kind of been a fixation for them along with them along with chelation - anything to avoid the heritability elephant in the room.

> Wouldn't all of the autism cure cranks out there have gotten actual results other than dead children if this were true?

Probably not; systematic empirical investigation isn't exactly their thing, so even if their intuition (or deflecfion, depending on how you look at it) was in the right neighborhood (diet and digestion if gut bacteria offer some real help), doesn't make it particularly likely that they’d stumble on to the right thing.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#157

Post by gehwartzen » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 2:15 AM UTC

Very anecdotal but for the first couple of years of my sons life I gave him l reuteri mostly because it is very well studied for showing improvement in infant colic (it’s whats in Gerber Soothe brand colic drops for example) It certainly worked wonderfully for that but his general mood was all around better and now at four he’s extremely social. Of course he could have been otherwise as well but we do have some family history on both sides with autism spectrum disorders. The specific brand of l reuteri that seemed best based on my research at the time is BioGaia Protrctis.

Interestingly l Reuteri is also found in human breast milk.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#158

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 2:24 AM UTC

Nomentatus wrote: post #145

atomical wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great option for people obsessed with pseudoscience I suppose.

low-FODMAPs are University (Monash) science, peer reviewed - if you know of contrary recent studies, please drop some URLs. Mere gainsaying and vituperation is never a contribution to a discussion. One article that comes to hand: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/when-gluten-sensiti...

[deleted]

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#159

Post by tomjakubowski » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 2:38 AM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #155

Wouldn't all of the autism cure cranks out there have gotten actual results other than dead children if this were true? Digestion and diet have kind of been a fixation for them along with them along with chelation - anything to avoid the heritability elephant in the room.

Diet itself seems pretty heritable, at least for children. Up to a certain age, we generally eat what our parents tell us to, and that is generally pretty similar to what they're eating.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#160

Post by nickpsecurity » Sun, Dec 09, 2018, 2:39 AM UTC

gehwartzen wrote: post #157

Very anecdotal but for the first couple of years of my sons life I gave him l reuteri mostly because it is very well studied for showing improvement in infant colic (it’s whats in Gerber Soothe brand colic drops for example) It certainly worked wonderfully for that but his general mood was all around better and now at four he’s extremely social. Of course he could have been otherwise as well but we do have some famil…

"Interestingly l Reuteri is also found in human breast milk."

When I looked into breastfeeding, different sources said it had oxytocin in it which made people feel more connected or increased trust. Made me start wondering if society's break from breastfeeding might be causing a lot of social and family problems since the bootstrapping phase of trust wasn't there anymore. That's on top of how childbirth happens in hospitals treating it like industrial process.

Now, you say that's in breast milk. Now I'm wondering if we can add the problems it might knock out to the list of negative effects of no breastfeeding.