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Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

economist.com

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Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#81

Post by vbuwivbiu »

zumu wrote: post #62
vbuwivbiu wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the virus seeks to replicate" variants of the virus that caused their hosts to socialize more replicated more

Kind of a tangent, but the way you phrased it, while much more technically correct, is totally roundabout and unnatural to a native English speaker. I've often postulated that the necessity of a Subject in English sentences causes us to inadvertently project agency in our descriptions of events / phenomena that in reality don't have an "actor" in a meaningful sense. It's fascinating to consider to what extent this fa…

I completely agree it's ungainly - maybe this is better:

"host-sociability-enhancing variants replicated more"

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#82

Post by dragonwriter »

zumu wrote: post #62
vbuwivbiu wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the virus seeks to replicate" variants of the virus that caused their hosts to socialize more replicated more

Kind of a tangent, but the way you phrased it, while much more technically correct, is totally roundabout and unnatural to a native English speaker. I've often postulated that the necessity of a Subject in English sentences causes us to inadvertently project agency in our descriptions of events / phenomena that in reality don't have an "actor" in a meaningful sense. It's fascinating to consider to what extent this fa…

> Kind of a tangent, but the way you phrased it, while much more technically correct, is totally roundabout and unnatural to a native English speaker.

As a native English speaker, I disagree; it is a perfectly natural way for the intended message to be communicated in English.

> I've often postulated that the necessity of a Subject in English sentences causes us to inadvertently project agency in our descriptions of events / phenomena that in reality don't have an "actor" in a meaningful sense.

A subject need not be an (semantic, much less also self-willed) agent (and, when it is, it can , and misleading anthropomorphization is in no way a peculiarity of English speakers.

“Evolution favored variants which enhance host sociability” has a subject, which is a semantic (but not self-willed) agent.

“Variants which enhanced host sociability are favored by evolution” has a subject, which is the patient rather than the agent.

Both are quite natural English expressions, and (unlike attributing will to the virus) accurate (or, at least, describe a plausible phenomenon.)

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#83

Post by why_only_15 »

noetic_techy wrote: post #54

My thoery: I'm inclined to think the link in autism might be caused by the prevalence of C-section births not passing the proper gut microbiome to some kids who are also genetically more inclined to autism but only if the gut is screwed up at birth. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4464665/ Doctors nowadays do C-sections often for unnecessary reasons, such as expedience or shift changes or as a default be…

The inputs and outputs here are well known. These tests have been done before: [0] is a good example. It shows that babies born through c-sections are more likely to be autistic, but not more likely to be autistic than their siblings, implying "that this association is due to familial confounding by genetic and/or environmental factors."

[0]: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/...

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#84

Post by barrkel »

gboudrias wrote: post #44
theprotocol wrote: post #2

Without S. Boulardii, I am a neurotic mess who can't digest anything at all nor think straight after eating anything, so I'm inclined to believe this hypothesis. I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amora…

Interestingly, almost no one in NA justice systems talks about evil. The causality between life events leading to crime is often ridiculously clear, and choice barely factors into it. Believing in evil is its own kind of privilege. I for one have now seen a lot of criminal cases, and I've only seen sick people and people following the path laid before them. No evil in sight, but the concept's very existence allows fo…

The ideas of free will, consequences and deterrence; morality, punishment and justice; mental illness and life choice determinism; all exist in different planes, different parallel reasoning systems about the world - rational, moral, biological/sociological. You can make linkages between the different metaphors of explication, but mixing and matching is a recipe for inconsistency. Worse, if you think mostly in a different plane to someone else, you'll forever talk past one another.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#86

Post by frakr »

gboudrias wrote: post #44
theprotocol wrote: post #2

Without S. Boulardii, I am a neurotic mess who can't digest anything at all nor think straight after eating anything, so I'm inclined to believe this hypothesis. I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amora…

Interestingly, almost no one in NA justice systems talks about evil. The causality between life events leading to crime is often ridiculously clear, and choice barely factors into it. Believing in evil is its own kind of privilege. I for one have now seen a lot of criminal cases, and I've only seen sick people and people following the path laid before them. No evil in sight, but the concept's very existence allows fo…

They still choose to continue down that path, or to not seek healing. Maybe it would be difficult to make another choice, but impossible? I find that pretty hard to believe.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#87

Post by elhudy »

theprotocol wrote: post #28
sametmax wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very interested in your experience. Few questions: - what positive effects did you get taking S. Boulardii ? - did you try reuteri ? If no why ? If yes what happened ? - what forms did you take the supplement in ? What form do you prefer and why ? Any brand recommanded or things to watch out ? Do you know natural reliable food sources ? - can you tell me more about your 3 courses of H. Pylori eradictation ? Why ?…

I didn't expect this level of attention at all. I hope it is appropriate for me to respond. - what positive effects did you get taking S. Boulardii ? Intestinal "well-being," feeling I can almost forget about my intestines, whereas normally my abdomen always hurts very badly, to the point my entire body is straining in reaction to it. This is only in combination with the other measures I took; S. Boulardii alone is i…

>I had to greatly limit harsh foods (acidic stuff like vinegar, or very salty foods) or else I'd get gastritis extremely quickly (confirmed on endoscopy). My scalp started to itch and lots of hair fell out in my crown area. I am better with dairy nowadays but still can't have sugar, and vinegar just destroys me (I guess because it is corrosive AND high in histamines). I also can barely eat acidic foods and have to avoid most of them.

This is interesting, considering that acidic and salty environments are the ones which naturally harbor beneficial bacteria and yeasts. Quite the paradox you have!

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#89

Post by elliekelly »

abledon wrote: post #59
noetic_techy wrote: post #54

My thoery: I'm inclined to think the link in autism might be caused by the prevalence of C-section births not passing the proper gut microbiome to some kids who are also genetically more inclined to autism but only if the gut is screwed up at birth. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4464665/ Doctors nowadays do C-sections often for unnecessary reasons, such as expedience or shift changes or as a default be…

Also less women are breastfeeding, a process which also gives probiotics

Yes, this is hugely important for a child and our laws in the U.S. do not give families adequate support to allow most women to be able to provide this crucial care for this children.[1] It's difficult for many women working white collar jobs and almost impossible for women who work minimum wage jobs.[2] This systemic problem is going to have long-term public health effects that we have yet to even comprehend.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020209/

[2] https://qz.com/1034016/the-class-dynamics-of-breastfeeding-i...

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#90

Post by justinator »

jlg23 wrote: post #57
erikpukinskis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also casts religions with dietary restrictions in an interesting light.

Which major religion forbids yeast intake (and how would you guarantee that) and from which angle does one shine light on a people united in faith but with distinct local food (and yeast) sources to make it "interesting"?

The Catholic Church uses unleavened bread for the Host.

It's symbolic, but somewhat of an interest in this thread.

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