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Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

#21

Post by geobmx540 »

samfisher83 wrote: post #14
geobmx540 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accreditation just acts as another "has a college degree" filter. There is already a proliferation of certifications that people can attain if they wish, that may or may not help them in specific instances that try to "give you a minimum level of knowledge", but really that just means the questions you get asked assume you know that - ie they are harder and incorporate your algorithm knowledge, instead of specificall…

I wish there was one that would actually count. For Example if you pass the boards its a pretty rigorous test and they won't be asking you what the krebs cycle is.

I don't know enough about the boards or how doctors interview, but doesn't this just move the puck in the interview process?

For a lot of the things we build in engineering that kind of qualification would be ludicrous, yet we've created another barrier for a variety of people where there doesn't have to be one.

"Must have Super Engineer Accreditation(tm)" - it'll be the new college degree. How much does it cost to get? How much time? The girl who doesn't need to work can study all she wants and pass without having to do nights and weekends for months / years etc.

Re: Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

#22

Post by geobmx540 »

lawn wrote: post #11
issa wrote: post #2

I think one reason is that the interview process isn't JUST designed to check if you can code. While I agree that the process is broken, there are legitimate reasons why companies put up high barriers to entry.

The problem isn't a high barrier to entry, what's tested is a separate skill set. It's like testing a carpenter's skill by looking at how good he hits with the hammer.

I feel like you can tell a lot about a person by observing how they perform their craft. Swinging a hammer probably doesn't offer too much insight when done properly, when its done wrong, feels like a tip of the iceberg situation.

Re: Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

#23

Post by pradhyo »

geobmx540 wrote: post #15
pradhyo wrote: post #3

I am in the exact same situation - I am trying to get into machine learning from being a web developer so I am learning a lot of new things too. After months of not finding time to do courses online, I've been studying between 5-7am for the last couple of weeks. Previously I would wake up, go straight to work, come back home tired and waste time on Netflix before going to bed. Now I spend less time for entertainment…

I'm curious as to your mentality here? - you make it sound like a real chore to learn machine learning, but also that it's something you want to get into. I've found that if I want to get into something, it's a real pleasure to research, learn, tinker - that is my entertainment & relaxation.

I didn't mean to sound like that - does allocating time come across that way?

This is something that has frustrated me - I thoroughly enjoy learning new things and these online courses and yet I wasn't spending time on these things. After work, it's a lot easier to just switch on Netflix from the couch and let it autoplay. If they had Udacity on FireTV, I would have probably used that instead of Netflix. I'm thinking this is also because I am mentally spent after work and it takes more to study vs Netflix.

Re: Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

#24

Post by pradhyo »

tomiplaz wrote: post #8
pradhyo wrote: post #3

I am in the exact same situation - I am trying to get into machine learning from being a web developer so I am learning a lot of new things too. After months of not finding time to do courses online, I've been studying between 5-7am for the last couple of weeks. Previously I would wake up, go straight to work, come back home tired and waste time on Netflix before going to bed. Now I spend less time for entertainment…

How do you stay motivated? Do you have negative days, days full of doubt, insecurities, etc.?

Back when I was a student, I had to find a job so I put in a lot of effort.. until I found a job and settled in nicely. Couple years in, I am now familiar with the team and our stack so it takes less effort to keep up to date. I have a lot less free time than before due to the full-time job but I spend a larger percentage of it on unproductive things - lack of motivation when everything is cozy.

My situation has changed a little bit now (due to some deadlines) and though I can find a web developer job more easily, I want to give it my best shot trying to get an ML job, since I have realized I might never do it if I don't do it now.

Luckily I don't have a lot of those negative thoughts/days. I've felt bad a couple of times for wasting too much time on that particular day but I think of the overall progress I've made and get over it pretty quickly.

Re: Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

#25

Post by huehehue »

bootsz wrote: post #10

Yes, the system sucks. That said, there are ways you can deal with it. Everyone's situation is different, and I don't know yours. But there's basically two main approaches you can take: 1) Don't devote much time to studying, and focus on companies that don't rely on whiteboarding leetcode-style interviews. They're harder to find, but they exist. FAANG probably isn't going to be an option, unless you get lucky. 2) Go…

First point is great. It also removes a lot of stress if you decide to go in with the mindset of "well, if they ask me a bunch of algo brain teasers I'll just walk out". Instead of grinding on leetcode, you can put together notes on the most impactful work you've done (hard numbers are good here), or study language/system mechanics.

Re: Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

#26

Post by wan23 »

geobmx540 wrote: post #12
wan23 wrote: post #7

Some kind of accreditation for software would save our industry so much time. It's crazy how many hours we spend asking and answering the same basic questions over and over. Imagine if we could focus on the important stuff in interviews!

Accreditation just acts as another "has a college degree" filter. There is already a proliferation of certifications that people can attain if they wish, that may or may not help them in specific instances that try to "give you a minimum level of knowledge", but really that just means the questions you get asked assume you know that - ie they are harder and incorporate your algorithm knowledge, instead of specificall…

I think that in the case of software, a necessary requirement would be to have some work experience and to have someone who is also accredited to sign off on that experience BEFORE you get to take the test. It's not the same as a college degree filter, which doesn't really say anything about a person's ability to do useful work.

Re: Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

#27

Post by bootsz »

paulie_a wrote: post #20
bootsz wrote: post #10

Yes, the system sucks. That said, there are ways you can deal with it. Everyone's situation is different, and I don't know yours. But there's basically two main approaches you can take: 1) Don't devote much time to studying, and focus on companies that don't rely on whiteboarding leetcode-style interviews. They're harder to find, but they exist. FAANG probably isn't going to be an option, unless you get lucky. 2) Go…

Is whiteboard interviews a sv thing? Because they seem to be rare in the Midwest? Maybe I've just been lucky. But they seem like an incredibly poor way to interview someone.

I'm in the northeast, and I've found them to be pretty common. But I've interviewed a few places that did not do them.

Re: Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

#29

Post by auspex »

It's almost like we need a piece of paper from something like an accredited institution of some sort.

----- I'm just kidding but it is really expensive to hire and fire a poor performer. These are high paying jobs where bugs can mean loss of revenue so it makes sense that they want the best.

Honestly, you should be reviewing algorithms every few years so you never fully lose it... not just when you need a new job.

Update: You should not be trying to memorize problems but learn the 10ish basic algos... and understand how to quickly classify a problem as solvable with a specific algo. It makes the entire process less daunting.

Re: Ask HN: How to get a job while having a job?

#30

Post by pmikesell »

paulie_a wrote: post #20
bootsz wrote: post #10

Yes, the system sucks. That said, there are ways you can deal with it. Everyone's situation is different, and I don't know yours. But there's basically two main approaches you can take: 1) Don't devote much time to studying, and focus on companies that don't rely on whiteboarding leetcode-style interviews. They're harder to find, but they exist. FAANG probably isn't going to be an option, unless you get lucky. 2) Go…

Is whiteboard interviews a sv thing? Because they seem to be rare in the Midwest? Maybe I've just been lucky. But they seem like an incredibly poor way to interview someone.

I’m curious to know what you think a better way would be?
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