Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

goinswriter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 64 posts

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#41

Post by ticmasta »

cirgue wrote: post #2

I had always heard this used as kind of a metaphor: do whatever the hell you want to in writing, follow every thread, wander all over the place, believe your own bullshit, and just get all the ideas out of you and onto the page. When you edit, then it's time to worry about what your point actually is and how your reader will understand it. It's a little weird to me that someone would take this aphorism literally.

Kurt Vonnegut framed two camps of writers: ones like you summarize above and others that precisely and painstakingly put each word to paper, exactly how they want it to look and do little or no editing. Both are legitimate and you should probably just use whatever works and forget about the "correct" way to write.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#42

Post by gmoes »

There’s some great comedy by the late Bill Hicks about his drug and alcohol use and that by rock and roll bands like the Rolling Stones and The Beatles and what music would sound like without drugs.

Not to disparage the author but I see he is selling a book called: Real Artists Don’t Starve.

I haven’t read the book, I have to ask myself what if that was the approach taken by Van Gogh? What would his art look like? My guess is probably pre-Impressionist Manet.

Carl Sagan was a famous pot head who said something like re-evaluate the ideas that you come up when you high after you’ve come down.

I find the ideas can flow when I drink. I have heard other people say that that doesn’t happen for them.

There’s a great quote on the floor of the Guggenheim in New York: LET EACH MAN EXERCISE THE ART HE KNOWS

I think it’s really, find what works for you.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#43

Post by coldtea »

Well, "terrible advice" if you want to have a clear mind for the tame trite that passes for modern writing.

But it worked well for writers in the past, from Baudelaire and Artaud, to Hemingway (who did wrote drunk), Lowry, Thompson, Miller, Bukowski, Burroughs, and tons of others...

Of course if you want to merely tie sentences together in your Mac on some Starbucks and never stray into self-destruction or anything resembling an outside-the-mainstream experience, sure...

That said, drinking/drugs as an artistic pose can be even worse than no drinking/drugs at all.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#44

Post by mattmar96 »

feocco wrote: post #5
cirgue wrote: post #2

I had always heard this used as kind of a metaphor: do whatever the hell you want to in writing, follow every thread, wander all over the place, believe your own bullshit, and just get all the ideas out of you and onto the page. When you edit, then it's time to worry about what your point actually is and how your reader will understand it. It's a little weird to me that someone would take this aphorism literally.

Taking things too literally seems to be a plague infecting many topics lately. I've interpreted the phrase similarly, do whatever you need to, just get "it" out of your head! Perfection is the enemy of good.

This reminds me of the recent poster PETA put out. It asks people to say "feed 2 birds with one scone" instead of the familiar version. haha

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#46

Post by ticmasta »

porpoisely wrote: post #14
WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former copy editor here, would not recommend this approach for writing anything non-artistic. Imagine a coder or engineer following this recommendation: no plan, no structure, just throwing ideas willy-nilly. Eventually, you then have to sift through all the ideas, find what's good and what gels, and then re-write to make it coherent, narrative, and logical. You'll probably incur a lot of technical debt and overhead…

I mostly agree with your points. But coding or programming is as much artistic as it is engineering. It isn't an accident that the historical center of tech is also the center of the drug. Not just performative drugs but also hallucinogenic. https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/07/09/hacking-the-brain-sil...

>> It isn't an accident that the historical center of tech is also the center of the drug

This assertion is ridiculous; it could most certainly be a coincidence. I'd suggest the numerous locations around the world known for a period of drug experimentation that are not technology hot beds suggests it is.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#47

Post by mbostleman »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #3
cirgue wrote: post #2

I had always heard this used as kind of a metaphor: do whatever the hell you want to in writing, follow every thread, wander all over the place, believe your own bullshit, and just get all the ideas out of you and onto the page. When you edit, then it's time to worry about what your point actually is and how your reader will understand it. It's a little weird to me that someone would take this aphorism literally.

Former copy editor here, would not recommend this approach for writing anything non-artistic. Imagine a coder or engineer following this recommendation: no plan, no structure, just throwing ideas willy-nilly. Eventually, you then have to sift through all the ideas, find what's good and what gels, and then re-write to make it coherent, narrative, and logical. You'll probably incur a lot of technical debt and overhead…

I'm not sure about that. When coding, like other comments about writing, I can feel much more relaxed and ultimately more creative when I have a couple of drinks during the process. That doesn't mean that I have "no plan, no structure, just throwing ideas willy-nilly.". Maybe that's what I would do if I was falling over, black out drunk - but I don't think that's the spirit of what we're talking about here - or at least it's not the way I take it. To the contrary, my plans and structures can often come together more easily in the relaxed, somewhat inebriated state that a little alcohol provides.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#48

Post by foxhop »

I _really_ like writing prose while high on editable cannabis. The end result is rarely useful except to document my stream of conscious. I have a private hg mercurial version control repository called "journal" that I have used for the past 6 years.

It is very therapeutic and lots of creative ideas are stored away. Each year gets it's own text file and I write in ReStructured Text just in case one day I decide to make my journals public in PDF form or something. Not all entries are influenced by mood enhancing drugs.

I have been known to read what I wrote the night before and swipe some of the cooler ideas as a tweet or expand the idea as a full post on my public blog.

When I drink I don't usually find myself drawn to writing or coding.

I think the more inclusive version of this advise should be:

Write crazy, Edit sanely

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#49

Post by ohrus »

What kind of source of a man's life is a granddaughter?

I am in my mid-thirties with 3 kids. Perhaps someday I'll have a granddaughter. It is unlikely that she will have a full picture of how I conducted my life at any stage. What a strange way to support the debunking of a quote. Also, I think his take is mostly wrong.

Writing and editing are two different worlds. The comparison with drunk/sober works. Write with abandon, let the spirits, daemons, or whatever out onto the page. Then go back, with clear, focused attention and sort that garbage out.

Not to say a glass of the hard stuff won't help the process along.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#50

Post by foobarchu »

feocco wrote: post #5
cirgue wrote: post #2

I had always heard this used as kind of a metaphor: do whatever the hell you want to in writing, follow every thread, wander all over the place, believe your own bullshit, and just get all the ideas out of you and onto the page. When you edit, then it's time to worry about what your point actually is and how your reader will understand it. It's a little weird to me that someone would take this aphorism literally.

Taking things too literally seems to be a plague infecting many topics lately. I've interpreted the phrase similarly, do whatever you need to, just get "it" out of your head! Perfection is the enemy of good.

This is a case where most people are going to naturally take it literally. Most people don't hear someone espouse "write drunk, edit sober" and think "oh i bet that's a metaphor, they hear a justification to drink more. This is actually the first time I've heard someone claim that quip isn't literal, ever. That's because its not formed as metaphorical advice, its formed as a very specific instruction. There's nothing there to indicate that it should be mulled over and tweaked apart for deeper information.
Post reply on HN