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Lyft Files for IPO

reuters.com

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Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#281

Post by [deleted] »

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #268
the_reformation wrote: post #200

The most exciting implication here is that we can finally pour over the financials of a major ride-hailing company. Whether these companies have the unit economics to succeed is, remarkably, still an open question.

Unit economics don’t really matter in this case. Lyft and Uber could be hemorrhaging money but the paradigm has fundamentally shifted. Ownership as we know it will become meaningless. Sure, you could buy a self-driving car, but do you need to? Waymo One’s launch will determine the future of ridesharing companies, not unit economics.

[deleted]

Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#282

Post by sarreph »

gaius wrote: post #278
baddox wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you’re talking about the price elasticity of demand. You describe airline travel (at least for personal economy class flights) to be fairly inelastic, meaning that if the price rises even a little bit, a lot of people will just drive or not take the trip. That certainly rings true to me. I recently bought US domestic flights home for Christmas, and I certainly chose the absolute cheapest flight that fit t…

very elastic use cases, like a ride home from the bar or a rescue from the rain They manage demand via surge pricing, I thought. So is it really elastic?

I think it’s probably more like them capitalising on the elastic nature of the demand for these scenarios. Definitely an element of control as well though, as there is increased demand too (but it’s likely more elastic and therefore more tolerant to price increases).

Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#283

Post by dsfyu404ed »

sanedigital wrote: post #280
gaius wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ownership as we know it will become meaningless. Sure, you could buy a self-driving car, but do you need to? I wonder if people who say things like this are actually drivers, because every driver I know has a car full of random stuff that lives permanently in it incase it’s needed. No one is going to carry all that with them; if they did it wouldn’t live in the car in the first place! Ownership isn’t going anywhere,…

But then where do people without cars keep all of these necessary items? I live in an urban area, I own a car, and I have almost nothing in it besides a car seat. Taxis have killed ownership in places where taxis are more convenient than car ownership. As ride sharing becomes more ubiquitous—especially as self driving vehicles move into the space—that's going to become a reality in more and more locations.

>But then where do people without cars keep all of these necessary items?

They just don't carry them. If it starts raining and you didn't bring an umbrella then oh well, you get wet.

Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#284

Post by francisofascii »

gaius wrote: post #279
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unit economics don’t really matter in this case. Lyft and Uber could be hemorrhaging money but the paradigm has fundamentally shifted. Ownership as we know it will become meaningless. Sure, you could buy a self-driving car, but do you need to? Waymo One’s launch will determine the future of ridesharing companies, not unit economics.

Ownership as we know it will become meaningless. Sure, you could buy a self-driving car, but do you need to? I wonder if people who say things like this are actually drivers, because every driver I know has a car full of random stuff that lives permanently in it incase it’s needed. No one is going to carry all that with them; if they did it wouldn’t live in the car in the first place! Ownership isn’t going anywhere,…

Having a hard time thinking of stuff that needs to stay in the car. A child car seat is certainly a big one, but that could be equipped in a shared car. What other stuff do these people need?

Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#285

Post by ric2b »

pbreit wrote: post #263
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether these companies have the unit economics to succeed is, remarkably, still an open question. I don't think there are many people who doubt that ride hailing apps can be done profitably. I think the big question is (a) is it a commodity business (I personally believe it is) and (b) can potential profit margins support their astronomical valuations. I think the main problem (though MUCH more so for Uber than fo…

When you say you think it's a commodity business could you imagine a new entrant in a mature Lyft/Uber market? I couldn't. Pockets would have to be very deep. The basic economics of Uber/Lyft-style transportation is very profitable. The biggest economic challenges are 1) entering a market and 2) pools. And Lyft & Uber fighting each other.

They're already not the only ones, there's cabify, mytaxy and a few others.

The drivers gladly use multiple apps so these businesses don't really hold much power in terms of lock-in.

Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#286

Post by ghaff »

baddox wrote: post #274
speby wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I think the reality is that it will turn out to be much more like the airline business - basically a commodity business where raising prices is extremely difficult. I believe you are onto something there. What did people do before Lyft/Uber? They walked more. They biked. They took public transportation. Maybe they drove themselves. Maybe they drove/carpooled with a friend. Maybe they took a good old fashioned t…

Sounds like you’re talking about the price elasticity of demand. You describe airline travel (at least for personal economy class flights) to be fairly inelastic, meaning that if the price rises even a little bit, a lot of people will just drive or not take the trip. That certainly rings true to me. I recently bought US domestic flights home for Christmas, and I certainly chose the absolute cheapest flight that fit t…

Historically, I would have said that taking taxis was fairly price inelastic. You knew it would be relatively expensive but you either didn't care or it was really the only practical way to get from Point A to Point B.

However, my sense is that for at least certain locations/demographics, that's probably changed with Uber/Lyft. I don't personally use them much but anecdotally a lot of people have started using them as an alternative to public transit or just because it's easier if they're going out for a night on the town. And I work with a lot of people for whom the reflex seems to be to pull out a smartphone anytime they need to go more than a few blocks while traveling. I expect those behaviors would change if the price suddenly went to 2X. (It also definitely makes a difference at the margins when renting cars and that's mostly a straightforward price calculation.)

Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#287

Post by ghaff »

sanedigital wrote: post #280
gaius wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ownership as we know it will become meaningless. Sure, you could buy a self-driving car, but do you need to? I wonder if people who say things like this are actually drivers, because every driver I know has a car full of random stuff that lives permanently in it incase it’s needed. No one is going to carry all that with them; if they did it wouldn’t live in the car in the first place! Ownership isn’t going anywhere,…

But then where do people without cars keep all of these necessary items? I live in an urban area, I own a car, and I have almost nothing in it besides a car seat. Taxis have killed ownership in places where taxis are more convenient than car ownership. As ride sharing becomes more ubiquitous—especially as self driving vehicles move into the space—that's going to become a reality in more and more locations.

First of all, I just have the car customized for my needs. Cables for electronics, roof rack and cradles for kayak and canoe, seat covers, etc. Then I tend to keep rain gear and various equipment related to the current season's sport so I don't need to remember to put it in the car when I go out. Various spares of things like glasses in case I forget. Things like jumper cables, windshield fluid, and warm clothing in case of problems.

Do I need to keep all that in my car? Probably not and maybe I wouldn't if I lived in a city and just needed a car for basic transport now and then. But it's convenient and it describes how pretty much everyone I know uses their car--especially if they have kids.

And, as I said elsewhere, I actually expect self-driving will tend to cause people to spread out more and create even more incentive to make cars a customized self-contained work and entertainment space.

Added: More transportation options definitely make a difference at the margins, whether it's a second family car or dropping an infrequently used automobile in the city. I know a couple in SF who don't own a car but depend heavily on a combination of biking, short-term car rentals, regular rentals, and Uber/Lyft. Pre-Zipcar and Uber/Lyft I'm guessing they'd still have a car. On the other hand, I live in a semi-rural area and I'm going to own a car pretty much no matter what other options you introduce.

Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#288

Post by traviscj »

francisofascii wrote: post #284
gaius wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ownership as we know it will become meaningless. Sure, you could buy a self-driving car, but do you need to? I wonder if people who say things like this are actually drivers, because every driver I know has a car full of random stuff that lives permanently in it incase it’s needed. No one is going to carry all that with them; if they did it wouldn’t live in the car in the first place! Ownership isn’t going anywhere,…

Having a hard time thinking of stuff that needs to stay in the car. A child car seat is certainly a big one, but that could be equipped in a shared car. What other stuff do these people need?

- earthquake kit (water, energy bars, flashlight, first aid kit, foil blankets, ...)

- mess cleanup (paper towels, wipes, windex)

- small tool kit (leatherman, couple wrenches, battery post brush, duct tape)

I think there’s more but that’s off the top of my head.

Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#289

Post by Kihashi »

reaperducer wrote: post #191
ksec wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much more do Lyft changes as compared to Uber? ( Sorry Lyft was never in my region )

It's not really possible to make a direct comparison because Uber's rates (at least in my market) are a game. Uber has all kinds of crazy promotions, like paying a flat $6 per ride for a whole month, or paying $25 up front for ten rides, no matter how long they are. Of course, there's also surge pricing that everyone knows about. The worst is that Uber charges passengers more if they're traveling to or from "rich" ZI…

> Uber has all kinds of crazy promotions, like paying a flat $6 per ride for a whole month, or paying $25 up front for ten rides, no matter how long they are. Of course, there's also surge pricing that everyone knows about.

Lyft frequently gives me offers like "10% of your next 10 rides" and "25% off this weekend!". I think it's because I'm only an occasional rider (1/month or so unless I'm traveling). Uber does not give me any promotions.

Re: Lyft Files for IPO

#290

Post by calvinbhai »

degenerate wrote: post #226
calvinbhai wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, Lyft was the first mover, Uber shamelessly ripped off Lyft's model that anyone can be a driver and come out with Uber X. So, imo Lyft was the first mover, but was smart to let Uber face all the heat sacrificing short term growth for long term success. Uber has been in too many things for me to believe that they can sustain the business (I may be wrong)

I don't think you are wrong. I have both apps, and my last 10 rides have been in Lyft, because it's consistently cheaper. If uber wants me back all they need to do is compete on price, but I think their operating costs are too high to do that, so they will eventually lose out from being too big and have to either scale back or implode.

Same here.

Any rides I have taken where Lyft is available, I ride with Lyft. Else, Uber. (mostly NYC/NJ/Toronto areas Lyft has been consistently cheaper for me).

Cheapest rideshare wins. race to bottom. Only way Uber / Lyft can avoid death, is with business rides and lockin. There no one is price sensitive, and they can make money off of business rides (Lyft is doing this really well, in nudging users to have more business rides).

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