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A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
21–30 of 85 posts
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#22A society without cash is a society in which every person has no choice but to get the permission of someone they don’t know and will never meet each and every time they seek to obtain food, water, shelter, or transportation, and that permission can be revoked instantly, silently, and invisibly at any time.
This is now before the city council in NYC, as the article points out, so the topic has come up in conversation more recently (and it’s noticeable, my office is in the area profiled in the story) and it’s amazing how many people just haven’t considered the basic dynamics of that.
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#23I've traveled to developing countries (not Africa).
Reality is mobile money is big - it basically lets the poor / unbanked have kind of a virtual wallet it seemed. I never signed up (westerner with a Visa card and USD) but didn't feel like it was locking people out. Folks using these wallets could transfer funds internationally to relatives surprisingly easily it seemed (I'm used to western union) as well.
Be interesting if something like these non-bank mobile wallets ever come to US (in overseas countries you can load your wallet with cash on street everywhere so you don't have to have a visa / debit card to do so).
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#24There is an important point to be discussed, that happens mainly in violent/poor countries: the frequent robbery (and it's consequences, like murders). A cashless economy will help solve this problem that affects everyone, especially the poor (paradoxically).
lol what?
they going to make you open your phone. send your money away to them. then steal your phone.
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#25There is an important point to be discussed, that happens mainly in violent/poor countries: the frequent robbery (and it's consequences, like murders). A cashless economy will help solve this problem that affects everyone, especially the poor (paradoxically).
lol what? they going to make you open your phone. send your money away to them. then steal your phone.
but that would leave a (digital) paper trail, so would make the crime more complex to pull off.
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#26As a counterfactual the other hand everyone in China appears to pay by mobile phone without problems using WeChat Pay and Alipay and no one seems to be locked out. Almost no one I know carries cash - it's just for the tourists who can't access that system. In Africa, mobile payments seems to have driven financial inclusion rather than the reverse. The cashless economy certainly drives de-anonymization, but very littl…
China is not a cashless society, and as long as you have the option to use cash the effects are minimal (as described in the article). A cashless economy will not only crush the poor, but also hit the middle class: it allows for a negative interest rate (can't withdraw your savings). I also suspect that it could enable many subtle ways to coerce consumers into certain behaviour: All your money is now just the number…
> All your money is now just the number you see in your bank's app
That is effectively the reality of any modern economy.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiatmoney.asp
Banks don't have the cash if everyone rushes to it and cashes out.
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#27As a counterfactual the other hand everyone in China appears to pay by mobile phone without problems using WeChat Pay and Alipay and no one seems to be locked out. Almost no one I know carries cash - it's just for the tourists who can't access that system. In Africa, mobile payments seems to have driven financial inclusion rather than the reverse. The cashless economy certainly drives de-anonymization, but very littl…
Only about 60% of all Chinese even have a smartphone. [1] "Everyone" you saw was probably a relatively well-off member of the middle class in a first-tier city. As a tourist, you obviously won't see anyone who can't afford visiting a touristy area. Try looking for a place more than an hour from any public transport and check again whether the people there all use cashless payment. [1] https://www.statista.com/statist…
> As a tourist, you obviously won't see anyone who can't afford visiting a touristy area.
This is totally untrue. Tourist areas attract beggars.
Beggars may not have smartphones, but penetration in first-tier cities goes much farther than "relatively well-off members of the middle class".
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#28I can see the potential problems, but maybe a part of the solution would be to legally give the poor a right to a basic/free bank account.
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#29If the problem is that some people don't have a checking account, wouldn't it better to provide them with a cheap/free checking account?
Even if all local shops accept cash, there's still tons of stuff you can't do without a checking account.
On the topic of cash-free living: I only use cash for 3 things these days: to buy cheese, to pay my cleaning lady, and for my son's weekly allowance. Even the babysitters accept online payment these days.