A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
nytimes.com
A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
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Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#2As a counterfactual the other hand everyone in China appears to pay by mobile phone without problems using WeChat Pay and Alipay and no one seems to be locked out. Almost no one I know carries cash - it's just for the tourists who can't access that system. In Africa, mobile payments seems to have driven financial inclusion rather than the reverse.
The cashless economy certainly drives de-anonymization, but very little evidence of "locking out poor" exists where this has actually happened
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#3As a counterfactual the other hand everyone in China appears to pay by mobile phone without problems using WeChat Pay and Alipay and no one seems to be locked out. Almost no one I know carries cash - it's just for the tourists who can't access that system. In Africa, mobile payments seems to have driven financial inclusion rather than the reverse. The cashless economy certainly drives de-anonymization, but very littl…
In those society, most people are more poor than we are. So what you think are the poors are not. To be poor means there is such a difference in lifestyle from the majority of people in your country that you can't afford the basic things that they can. What is a basic things change from place to place.
So what's poor in Africa or China is way more miserable that you think it is. And those persons, instead of being excluded like in our society, are either cast slaves (india), dead (africa) or in camps/prison (china).
You don't see no cash affecting them because there is no opportunity for them to be.
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#4As a counterfactual the other hand everyone in China appears to pay by mobile phone without problems using WeChat Pay and Alipay and no one seems to be locked out. Almost no one I know carries cash - it's just for the tourists who can't access that system. In Africa, mobile payments seems to have driven financial inclusion rather than the reverse. The cashless economy certainly drives de-anonymization, but very littl…
In those society, most people are more poor than we are. So what you think are the poors are not. To be poor means there is such a difference in lifestyle from the majority of people in your country that you can't afford the basic things that they can. What is a basic things change from place to place. So what's poor in Africa or China is way more miserable that you think it is. And those persons, instead of being ex…
I don't agree with your statement about poor people are in China's camps/prison. The poorest groups are not in those places
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#5As a counterfactual the other hand everyone in China appears to pay by mobile phone without problems using WeChat Pay and Alipay and no one seems to be locked out. Almost no one I know carries cash - it's just for the tourists who can't access that system. In Africa, mobile payments seems to have driven financial inclusion rather than the reverse. The cashless economy certainly drives de-anonymization, but very littl…
Only about 60% of all Chinese even have a smartphone. [1] "Everyone" you saw was probably a relatively well-off member of the middle class in a first-tier city. As a tourist, you obviously won't see anyone who can't afford visiting a touristy area. Try looking for a place more than an hour from any public transport and check again whether the people there all use cashless payment.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/257045/smartphone-user-p...
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
In those society, most people are more poor than we are. So what you think are the poors are not. To be poor means there is such a difference in lifestyle from the majority of people in your country that you can't afford the basic things that they can. What is a basic things change from place to place. So what's poor in Africa or China is way more miserable that you think it is. And those persons, instead of being ex…
I don't agree with your statement about poor people are in China's camps/prison. The poorest groups are not in those places
Would you say the poorest are working in the fields then, using cash and never living their village ?
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#7As a counterfactual the other hand everyone in China appears to pay by mobile phone without problems using WeChat Pay and Alipay and no one seems to be locked out. Almost no one I know carries cash - it's just for the tourists who can't access that system. In Africa, mobile payments seems to have driven financial inclusion rather than the reverse. The cashless economy certainly drives de-anonymization, but very littl…
> everyone in China appears to pay by mobile phone without problems using WeChat Pay and Alipay and no one seems to be locked out.
That is not true. I met people who don't have Alipay/WeChat on weekly basis. China's central bank beat those who refuse to accept cash payment with a big stick - Alibaba's Freshhema is a high profile target the central bank recently picked, there was actually a news article on that yesterday.
For me, I am more concerned about the fact that people's life could be dramatically affected if both Alipay/WeChat ban their accounts, say due to some business disputes. There is so far no regulation on this whatsoever.
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#8As a counterfactual the other hand everyone in China appears to pay by mobile phone without problems using WeChat Pay and Alipay and no one seems to be locked out. Almost no one I know carries cash - it's just for the tourists who can't access that system. In Africa, mobile payments seems to have driven financial inclusion rather than the reverse. The cashless economy certainly drives de-anonymization, but very littl…
China is not a cashless society, and as long as you have the option to use cash the effects are minimal (as described in the article).
A cashless economy will not only crush the poor, but also hit the middle class: it allows for a negative interest rate (can't withdraw your savings). I also suspect that it could enable many subtle ways to coerce consumers into certain behaviour: All your money is now just the number you see in your bank's app, giving the bank's marketing department a lot of power how you see and interact with and ultimately use that money.
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#9Another side-effect is for donations. In London it's possible to live without any cash. Even markets are accepting cards now.
There are often charities that are asking for money at the entrances of the tube. The UK is depending quite heavily on charities for people in need. This year it looks like they started equipping themselves with contact-less payment systems. It would be interesting to be able to see the numbers behind the scene.
What is quite sad is that beggars are not able to equip themselves with contact-less payment systems. I assume that they necessarily will become dependent on the charities to be able to survive.
Re: A Cashless Economy Locks Out the Poor
#10Another side-effect is for donations. In London it's possible to live without any cash. Even markets are accepting cards now. There are often charities that are asking for money at the entrances of the tube. The UK is depending quite heavily on charities for people in need. This year it looks like they started equipping themselves with contact-less payment systems. It would be interesting to be able to see the number…
The government should increase the taxes and spend that money on the poor/people in need.