Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#51

Post by Yoric » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:21 AM UTC

shaki-dora wrote: post #28

aduitsis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure a lot of people around here won't be able to hear you over the sound of how Firefox somehow doesn't feel quite right on their macs.

Yeah... I dont quite understand how Firefox does invest into integration with third-party password managers, but not the one built into MacOS. Arguably Safari usage is comparable to Firefox in terms of staving off a Chromium monoculture. Safari usage on iOS is actually far more important right now to ensurage some semblance of compatibility.

There used to be an add-on that let users integrate the Keychain in Firefox. I seem to remember that pretty much nobody used it, which doesn't speak well of the usefulness of this integration.

Also, Mozilla is working on its own cross-platform password manager/password sharing between devices. I'm not sure what the intended policy is wrt password sharing (there may be passwords that I only want to have on one device), but this should be more useful than the Keychain, which doesn't even let me move my passwords from one machine to the next one without arcane incantations.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#52

Post by Yoric » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:23 AM UTC

welly wrote: post #8

izacus wrote: post #3

How will avid Apple users on this website choose Firefox as a browser on their iPhones and iPad computers? EDIT: To clarify, mean the rendering engine (so we keep the ecosystem diversity), not the reskinned Safari. Reskinning Safari with Firefox branding does nothing for WebKit web monoculture.

We can, just not the Firefox rendering engine. As frustrating as that is, perhaps if more iOS users picked firefox as their "browser" then maybe Apple would take a hint and open up allowing other rendering engines. Although I'm not holding my breath. I'm an Apple user in as far as I have an iPad Pro and a Macbook Pro, I certainly don't hold Apple in as high regard as I used to do but those two products are superb eve…

~10 years ago, Apple killed the original Firefox for iOS, which was using Gecko. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#53

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:23 AM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #39

Note this advice is true for email services as well. Pay for and use an alternative now, or later you won't get the choice. Google is hellbent on locking people into their ecosystem. One such move is the promotion of AMP: https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/13/amp-for-email-is-a-terribl... Speaking of email and browsers, the Gmail app on top of iOS presents the user with a choice between two browsers: 1. Safari 2. Chrome,…

> Firefox on iOS doesn't do that either, but at least Firefox has its own tracking protection.

Firefox on iOS can't do this, unfortunately :(

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#54

Post by Yoric » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:24 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #7

izacus wrote: post #3

How will avid Apple users on this website choose Firefox as a browser on their iPhones and iPad computers? EDIT: To clarify, mean the rendering engine (so we keep the ecosystem diversity), not the reskinned Safari. Reskinning Safari with Firefox branding does nothing for WebKit web monoculture.

They can run a WASM-compiled version of it.

Does Wasm run comfortably on iOS devices? If so, that might be an idea.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#55

Post by lagadu » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:24 AM UTC

Yoric wrote: post #44

nindalf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I like Pocket, but I can't see why it shouldn't be an extension that can be removed.

Intellectually, I agree, but - it actually doesn't hurt; - market research indicates that most people actually love it.

Market research, in this particular case adoption rate, also indicates that people love giving all their privacy away to google.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#56

Post by calcifer » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:25 AM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #50

nindalf wrote: post #9

Just so we can avoid rehashing the discussion whenever a post encouraging the use of Firefox is posted. - Yes, Mozilla is still the better browser when it comes to privacy. - Yes, Mozilla has made missteps with Pocket and Mr. Robot. - Yes, it is slow/resource heavy on certain Macs with non-default resolutions. Yes, Mozilla is working on a fix. - Yes, it has become really fast for most users after Quantum improvements…

No, you can't just "fork Chromium" if you don't like the way Google is running the project What, why not? Beaker and others did exactly this.

Because even if you could keep up with the changes (you won't), your fork still won't mean anything for the open web or standards because nobody will care about your total market share of exactly 3 users.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#57

Post by Yoric » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:26 AM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #50

nindalf wrote: post #9

Just so we can avoid rehashing the discussion whenever a post encouraging the use of Firefox is posted. - Yes, Mozilla is still the better browser when it comes to privacy. - Yes, Mozilla has made missteps with Pocket and Mr. Robot. - Yes, it is slow/resource heavy on certain Macs with non-default resolutions. Yes, Mozilla is working on a fix. - Yes, it has become really fast for most users after Quantum improvements…

No, you can't just "fork Chromium" if you don't like the way Google is running the project What, why not? Beaker and others did exactly this.

How much success do they have?

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#58

Post by craigsmansion » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:26 AM UTC

Well, maybe if Mozilla hadn't alienated their early Freedom/Open web oriented users with their web hostile actions (or inaction). You know, the kind of users that would stick with "inferior" software because of values.

That mountain ahead, Mozilla, is the accumulation of all the "hills not to die on". You got the clout you wanted by selling out, but now those users are flocking to technically better solutions as you're doomed to eternally play catch-up. Who would have thought?

EDIT: Apparently people still believe in the "steward of the Open Web" image they present, and I have no right to be disenfranchised. We'll see. They made their bed...

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#59

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:26 AM UTC

welly wrote: post #8

izacus wrote: post #3

How will avid Apple users on this website choose Firefox as a browser on their iPhones and iPad computers? EDIT: To clarify, mean the rendering engine (so we keep the ecosystem diversity), not the reskinned Safari. Reskinning Safari with Firefox branding does nothing for WebKit web monoculture.

We can, just not the Firefox rendering engine. As frustrating as that is, perhaps if more iOS users picked firefox as their "browser" then maybe Apple would take a hint and open up allowing other rendering engines. Although I'm not holding my breath. I'm an Apple user in as far as I have an iPad Pro and a Macbook Pro, I certainly don't hold Apple in as high regard as I used to do but those two products are superb eve…

> As frustrating as that is, perhaps if more iOS users picked firefox as their "browser" then maybe Apple would take a hint and open up allowing other rendering engines. Although I'm not holding my breath.

The problem with this is that allowing other rendering engines would open up a whole can of worms that Apple would rather not have to deal with, and there's no easy way, even if Apple wanted it, to allow JIT execution for third-party browser engines without utterly destroying the entire codesigning system.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#60

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:28 AM UTC

welly wrote: post #45

takluyver wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an iOS device, but presumably Firefox on iOS still integrates with Firefox Sync, so it may reinforce using 'real' Firefox on a laptop or desktop.

It does, although doesn't support Firefox extensions as the Android version does. Again due to browser engine restrictions. Damn you, Apple.

Actually, since Firefox uses WKWebView, it should be able to support extensions to some extent. Whether this would fly on the App Store, with the rules against alternative marketplaces for software and all, is indeterminate, but I don't think there is a technical reason why this couldn't work.