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Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

robert.ocallahan.org

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Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#41

Post by Yoric »

ballooney wrote: post #33
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome has better security unless you want to keep yourself secure from prying by Google.

Would someone who actually _knows_ the answer (I know this will not deter the HN-reckon but worth a try) be able to comment on if/why this security gap exists? Is it something fundamental to the different design choices, is it just which has had more test/resources thrown at it, and is the closing of the gap practical and/or on a roadmap?

The Chrome multiprocess isolation model is really good. Firefox devs have known this for ages (heck, there were demos of a version of Firefox 3.x with a similar model), but could not actually land this model for two reasons:

- it would break all old-style extensions and users were unhappy about that;

- it takes looooots of memory and users were unhappy about that, too.

Now that Firefox has dropped all old-style extensions, there's large focus on reducing memory footprint, to allow moving to this model without costing as much memory as Chrome.

There are still a few kinks to fix, but this new isolation model should hopefully land within a few months.

Also, all sorts of security improvements are much easier now that Firefox dropped old-style extensions. Also, switching many developments to Rust makes new code much, much safer.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#42

Post by welly »

izacus wrote: post #16
welly wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can, just not the Firefox rendering engine. As frustrating as that is, perhaps if more iOS users picked firefox as their "browser" then maybe Apple would take a hint and open up allowing other rendering engines. Although I'm not holding my breath. I'm an Apple user in as far as I have an iPad Pro and a Macbook Pro, I certainly don't hold Apple in as high regard as I used to do but those two products are superb eve…

Not using the Firefox rendering engine means you're effectively using Safari for rendering sites and not helping ecosystem diversity. The renderer is still WebKit controlled by Apple, not a Firefox browser controlled and built by Mozilla.

That is definitely a fair point, and that's the frustating bit for me. I had hoped that eventually Apple would bow to pressure to open up allowing other rendering engines but as I say I'm not holding my breath.

They haven't done this in the last 10 years of iOS/iPhoneOS, can't imagine why they'd change their mind now. It is a shame.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#43

Post by kkarakk »

matt4077 wrote: post #38
kanwisher wrote: post #20

Brendan Eich has moved out to make BAT. Lets support that instead. Firefox can die and new things can take its place

"Brave" is a morally bankrupt hustle gnawing at the foundations of civil society; it is a bro-wser spawned by a disgruntled has-been consumed by his ego's unwillingness to accept that his bank account does not reflect his former social standing. It is the rare "creative" endeavour motivated solely by a drive to destroy, and to get rich & even in the process. Also it's just another Chromium skin, so it wouldn't change…

brave is amazing to use on mobile

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#44

Post by Yoric »

nindalf wrote: post #27
xfitm3 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the misstep with Pocket including it in the browser?

Yes. I like Pocket, but I can't see why it shouldn't be an extension that can be removed.

Intellectually, I agree, but

- it actually doesn't hurt;

- market research indicates that most people actually love it.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#45

Post by welly »

takluyver wrote: post #32
izacus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using the Firefox rendering engine means you're effectively using Safari for rendering sites and not helping ecosystem diversity. The renderer is still WebKit controlled by Apple, not a Firefox browser controlled and built by Mozilla.

I don't have an iOS device, but presumably Firefox on iOS still integrates with Firefox Sync, so it may reinforce using 'real' Firefox on a laptop or desktop.

It does, although doesn't support Firefox extensions as the Android version does. Again due to browser engine restrictions.

Damn you, Apple.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#46

Post by Yoric »

ekianjo wrote: post #13
nindalf wrote: post #9

Just so we can avoid rehashing the discussion whenever a post encouraging the use of Firefox is posted. - Yes, Mozilla is still the better browser when it comes to privacy. - Yes, Mozilla has made missteps with Pocket and Mr. Robot. - Yes, it is slow/resource heavy on certain Macs with non-default resolutions. Yes, Mozilla is working on a fix. - Yes, it has become really fast for most users after Quantum improvements…

> - Yes, Mozilla has made missteps with Pocket and Mr. Robot. and the removal of RSS support. So much for the champions of the Free Web!

It was removed because

- pretty much nobody was using it;

- it's pretty easy to reimplement as an extension.

Championing the Free Web is harder if you also need to champion the dead web.

edit "nobody" => "pretty much nobody"

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#47

Post by mehrdadn »

ballooney wrote: post #33
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome has better security unless you want to keep yourself secure from prying by Google.

Would someone who actually _knows_ the answer (I know this will not deter the HN-reckon but worth a try) be able to comment on if/why this security gap exists? Is it something fundamental to the different design choices, is it just which has had more test/resources thrown at it, and is the closing of the gap practical and/or on a roadmap?

I know of at least one design choice that resulted in Chrome preferring security vs. Firefox preferring privacy: when exactly to persist HSTS information. https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/02/02/anatomy-of-a-bro...

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#48

Post by vetinari »

shaki-dora wrote: post #28
aduitsis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure a lot of people around here won't be able to hear you over the sound of how Firefox somehow doesn't feel quite right on their macs.

Yeah... I dont quite understand how Firefox does invest into integration with third-party password managers, but not the one built into MacOS. Arguably Safari usage is comparable to Firefox in terms of staving off a Chromium monoculture. Safari usage on iOS is actually far more important right now to ensurage some semblance of compatibility.

The password manager integrations are extensions made by the respective third-party password managers, not by Mozilla. If you want to use Keychain, it is either up to Apple to make an extension, or someone volunteering.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#49

Post by feanaro »

nindalf wrote: post #9

Just so we can avoid rehashing the discussion whenever a post encouraging the use of Firefox is posted. - Yes, Mozilla is still the better browser when it comes to privacy. - Yes, Mozilla has made missteps with Pocket and Mr. Robot. - Yes, it is slow/resource heavy on certain Macs with non-default resolutions. Yes, Mozilla is working on a fix. - Yes, it has become really fast for most users after Quantum improvements…

- Yes, Firefox does support Containers, which are a very innovative privacy feature allowing you to maintain separate browser sessions (cookies, site preferences, ...) towards different websites inside a single browser instance.[1][2]

[1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/containers#w_what-are-c... [2] https://www.thechiefmeat.com/guides/containers.html

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#50

Post by EGreg »

nindalf wrote: post #9

Just so we can avoid rehashing the discussion whenever a post encouraging the use of Firefox is posted. - Yes, Mozilla is still the better browser when it comes to privacy. - Yes, Mozilla has made missteps with Pocket and Mr. Robot. - Yes, it is slow/resource heavy on certain Macs with non-default resolutions. Yes, Mozilla is working on a fix. - Yes, it has become really fast for most users after Quantum improvements…

No, you can't just "fork Chromium" if you don't like the way Google is running the project

What, why not? Beaker and others did exactly this.

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