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The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

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Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's only product is advertising, Google's main product is user attention, which they sell to advertisers in the form of advertising. Right now, they farm this attention mostly through web search, but hone it through data they collect with other venues, such as e.g. location and other data collected from Android handsets, the vast tentacles of Google Analytics, Google DNS, G-Suite (GMail, G Docs, G Drive, ...)…

> they're the monopoly because they are the best in many ways, mostly not because of network effects or anti-competitive behaviour Not true. Their advertising business is absolutely built on network effects. Advertisers advertise where there is user data (anything else is a money losing proposition), and lots of user data collection only happens in services that have the money to host (and curate) a large search inde…

What you are describing is called "compounding" in Economics, but that's not a network effect. You might want to read [0]

Microsoft has the money to to host and curate a large search index, funded by their other businesses. And after more than a decade, they've gotten almost nowhere -- everyone I know who tried Bing (or DDG) goes back to Google for quality.

Whereas e.g. Facebook and WhatsApp do have a network effect - you have no use for them unless your friends use them too, so a new contender - no matter how well funded e.g. Google+ - is not useful until critical mass is achieved; and critical mass is not achieved until it is useful.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#392
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

G+. The slogan at the time was "one unified Google" -- to I think rightfully correct a mistake that Google had a very diverse set of products many of which did not properly interact. As I understand it, GChat wasn't seen seen as able to integrate well into G+. So Hangouts was built on the G+/social infrastructure. To that team's credit they did somewhat seamlessly move users over from GChat to Hangouts without many h…

There must be a name for a concept that seems like it would be obviously true, but actually isn't. I don't think it's a bad thing that google ha a diverse set of products that didn't work together. I don't need my google calc/excel to integrate with youtube, and I don't need google play music to integrate with gmail. Google should look at these things as individual companies, which it seems like is something that the…

"There must be a name for a concept that seems like it would be obviously true, but actually isn't."

Specious?

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#393
post #374

I have lived back and forth between Europe and the USA over the last few years. Communication is always the most difficult part of the move. It's a reminder of how far off our tech is from the true ideal. In Europe, everyone has WhatsApp. For a while, this was great! One app, one "to reply" list. A taste of what messaging could be. I quickly found myself frustrated. WhatsApp relies on phone numbers, which muddies up…

And if your "Only One Messaging App" is a monoculture proprietary product with dubious profit goals than you can count me, and large swaths of tech minded people, out. The only way forward is either Matrix or something like it. And even then you need enough momentum to bend all the walled gardens of Google / MS / FB / etc to have to play ball with a common federated protocol. Good luck getting that without the ludicr…

I agree. But I can think of two alternatives that you don't mention:

1. A centralized and proprietary system, but with a transparent and non-profit governance structure. I understand the costs and technical challenges of global communication are bigger than say, wikipedia... but is it impossible?

2. The power of collective action. Communications apps don't put users first because we have no bargaining power. What would they do for us if we threatened to leave, en-mass (or vice versa, if enough people offered to collectively adopt their solution?).

And honestly, the problem might be better approached as a personal, social one: I don't care what the world uses, how do I get my social and professional circle to adopt one single solution?

This is more what I have in mind with "Only One Messaging App". We've grown 800% in the last quarter, so keep an eye out for us :P

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the native Android SMS app.

That's Messages

No, "Messages" is the successor to the now discontinued "Messaging" app. They would coexist when "Messages" had to be downloaded from the Play store.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#395
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, but a hardware specific messaging app is just stupid. As you can tell by the length of my last post, thinking about this situation has got me upset. So upset, that right now I've decided to launch a non-profit, open collective organization called OOMA. Only One Messaging App. OOMA will be comprised of the millions of people who are annoyed and upset at the result of tech companies competing for our…

Ooooh - the worlds biggest bikeshed ;)

Right, building another messaging app is not the right approach. But choosing one of the many existing solutions, and somehow convincing all of my social circle to move to it-- that's the problem I want to solve! Has anyone done it before?

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#396
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There must be a name for a concept that seems like it would be obviously true, but actually isn't. I don't think it's a bad thing that google ha a diverse set of products that didn't work together. I don't need my google calc/excel to integrate with youtube, and I don't need google play music to integrate with gmail. Google should look at these things as individual companies, which it seems like is something that the…

"There must be a name for a concept that seems like it would be obviously true, but actually isn't." Specious?

Body builder strong?

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#397
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allo was so unpolished compared to whatsapp/telegram att it was hilarious,you def drank the koolaid too much. every indian i met treated it with disdain.

I'd love to hear why you think it was unpolished. I've talked with a number of people (both Googler's and other tech people) that liked the product (at least where it was going). My problems with it were: * It used the "phone is the source of truth" like Whatsapp, but it didn't go with always-on encryption (so they could do Google assistant in it). * They didn't launch with a desktop web client, which it eventually g…

i don't remember now and it seems impossible to find an article with my list of complaints but:

1. feature parity wasn't there. i already have whatsapp,you're asking me to move. feature parity would be minimum requirement

2. it didn't auto discover people like whatsapp does(or atleast it didn't when i tried it initially), people needed to sign up for it adding friction to an already unpleasant process of getting people to switch

3. duo wasn't in allo and allo wasn't in duo. if there had been just one app it would have had a greater value prop(at the time) of chats with video chatting. instead there was a whole 'nother app to manage. once whatsapp announced voice calls(followed by video) getting anyone to "allo/duo" was absurd

4.i remember number porting was buggy in some way, just flat out didn't work for 2 days

can't remember the rest but i remember something about the emojis bugging me(google implementation different from whatsapp) and being unable to send pdfs

it needed to compete from day one not "find it's feet" gradually. i find this to be a problem with all google products really

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nit: afaik Google's DNS service has committed to never associating data with other Google services. For reference, it's the last bullet point on https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/faq

Thanks. I would take that (as anything else) with a grain of salt. They might not today, but things change and they might tomorrow (you know, they used to "not be evil" and they aren't anymore). Furthermore, rest assured that everyone who can, which includes - but is not limited to - three letter agencies, is monitoring traffic into 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4

Not to nitpick a nitpick, but both 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 support dns-over-tls. If you are concerned about the Powers That Be, you should switch over-- and good luck doing that with your ISPs DNS.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, I’ve done this before. Don’t know why you’re acting like it’s not a thing.

You can send messages using whatsapp desktop when your phone is off?

Oh shi- Dude! You're totally right. I thought you meant figuratively like "turn your computer off and go out". No, yeah. I get it. iMessage definitely does have that edge.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Their explanation also didn't make much sense since Hangouts was targeted for a while to consumers. But what I got from this is basically: Messages iMessage Duo Facetime Hangouts Slack I think they should rename the Hangouts to something completely different. That at least will increase clarity for consumers and businesses.

This mapping isn't correct. Hangouts does all of the above - video chats, voice chats, text with emojis, pictures and videos. Hangouts is also integrated with Google Voice and GMail. So when someone calls my GV phone number, it rings on my cell phone and in any open GMail tab (but not in the GMail app). I get an SMS, it pops up as a hangouts message too. It is a mess, but trying to kill Hangouts is insane, it's deepl…

>it pops up as a hangouts message too.

Unless you have google voice installed instead of hangouts. It manages to be two apps still.

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