Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended • Hacker News Board

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#341

Post by manicdee » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 12:34 AM UTC

brokenmachine wrote: post #326

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a secondary point to this legislation: discouraging whistleblowers by making it more difficult to both hide yourself and be hidden by whichever journalist you're working with. Chilling effects is a desired outcome of this legislation.

Whistleblowing attracts up to a 25-year sentence, so yes this is terrible for journalists. What's the maximum sentence for copyright infringement?

25 years assuming you are sentenced in Australia rather than extradited to the USA to be killed.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#342

Post by nate_meurer » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 12:38 AM UTC

craigsmansion wrote: post #296

nate_meurer wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, had you lived at the time of the American Revolution, do you imagine yourself among the pretentious loyalists accusing the founding fathers of "adolescent power fantasies"?

Surprisingly, I have not lived at the time of the American Revolution. Neither have you. Who we are contemporary with are the parents of a lot of dead kids; maybe you should explain to them the necessity of guns to protect them from harm. But keep on living in the past. If events like Sandy Hooks can't change your collective opinion, I doubt that anything will. It's all on your hands, you proud all-american weekend w…

> Surprisingly, I have not lived at the time of the American Revolution.

I think you misunderstand. I'm asking you to imagine, or in other words, pretend for the sake of argument, that you lived at that time, and then ask yourself whether you'd join the loyalists in calling for the colonists to be disarmed. Does that make sense? If you cannot understand why many Americans are unwilling to discard a right that was fundamental to the very existence of their nation, then you'll never be able to debate this topic productively.

> maybe you should explain to them the necessity of guns to protect them from harm.

Certainly, just as I have (gently) tried to convince people who have lost loved ones to drunk driving or alcoholism that criminalizing alcohol would not be a moral response to their loss. Would you disagree? Keep in mind that alcohol kills tens of thousands of people every year, including thousands of children killed by alcohol-impaired drivers. Is this also a problem that needs to be solved by criminalizing all alcohol? If not, what's the difference in your opinion?

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#343

Post by manicdee » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 12:43 AM UTC

brokenmachine wrote: post #323

manicdee wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the whole point of this legislation, and one of the reasons the legislation specifically supports the death penalty is to allow this legislation to be used by Australia to support the USA, where the death penalty still exists.

I don't understand your logic. Is the death penalty specifically mentioned in this bill somewhere?

Yes, it is specifically mentioned in this legislation, and is specifically called out as indication that the foreign government’s request warrants action under this legislation. That is to say that given the foreign government seeking information that will lead to a death penalty on conviction, the Attorney General is compelled to issue an instruction under this legislation.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#344

Post by photojosh » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 12:45 AM UTC

aiisahik wrote: post #308

As an Australian citizen who has spent many years in the US, I can say that this law is in line with the main ideology of the Australian government: extreme parentalism. You run a red light: fine for $450 in the mail. No court date, no arguments. You exceed the speed limit by 5km/h: $200 fine in the mail. No arguments. It is brutal but it's hard to deny that it works. Australia has some of the lowest per capital road…

To be fair, I got a fine in the mail years ago for stopping in a no stopping zone. (Couldn't find a carpark and had a screaming baby in the back) The notice says you can contest in court, which I did and got off. That was back as a student, it wouldn't be worth my time to take a whole day off anymore. :(

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#345

Post by brokenmachine » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 12:56 AM UTC

blkcoffee wrote: post #322

protonmail wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it does not, as we fall solely under Swiss jurisdiction since we don't have a presence in Australia.

From the Bill itself "A person is a designated communications provider if... 4 the person provides an electronic service that has one or more end-users in Australia 5 the person provides a service that facilitates, or is ancillary or incidental to,the provision of an electronic service that has one or more end-users in Australia 6 the person develops, supplies or updates software used, for use, or likely to be used,…

The Australian government has successfully nuked it's own entire IT industry from orbit. Great job guys.

I feel sorry for the people who started good businesses only to have them destroyed by this shitshow.

If it wasn't so scary as a citizen myself, it'd just be sad.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#346

Post by protonmail » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 1:04 AM UTC

blkcoffee wrote: post #322

protonmail wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it does not, as we fall solely under Swiss jurisdiction since we don't have a presence in Australia.

From the Bill itself "A person is a designated communications provider if... 4 the person provides an electronic service that has one or more end-users in Australia 5 the person provides a service that facilitates, or is ancillary or incidental to,the provision of an electronic service that has one or more end-users in Australia 6 the person develops, supplies or updates software used, for use, or likely to be used,…

If that happens, then you could simply use ProtonVPN to bypass the block.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#347

Post by dunpeal » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 1:16 AM UTC

jjcm wrote: post #335

anotherhuman0 wrote: post #201

Somebody over on Reddit [1] went through all the submissions (there was a consultation period) and summarised and tallied them [2]. Fully 99%+ of submissions were against the bill. A sad day for democracy indeed. A church in Tasmania was in favour, because child pornography. 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/a3j466/assistanc... 2. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dowpZ_Xtr1N_DgkHJN8i...

Oh hey, pwnies from reddit here! It wasn't just me, it was myself and a bunch of my coworkers over at Atlassian. As one of the larger Australian tech companies, many of us are somber today to see this passed. For context, here was the letter we sent: http://i.imgur.com/yRrZHAq.jpg

What's the impact on you going to be like?

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#348

Post by 75dvtwin » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 1:49 AM UTC

Australia -- the 1st world leader of the modern Progressive policies.

2018 -- citizens loose communication privacy protection [0]

2017 -- whistleblowers and dissidents are committed to mental institutions [1]

2016 -- citizens loose financial transaction privacy (the cashless society with finalized transition by 2020) [2]

1996 -- government confiscated all firearms from the hands of private, law abiding citizens

Sweden, and Canada are next.

Basically -- step-by-step methodology to run country-sized Mafia operation is being implemented.

[0] this article

[1] http://www.blotreport.com/australian-politics/are-the-though...

[2] https://bitsonline.com/australia-cashless-2020-payments-netw...

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#349

Post by hnzix » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 2:14 AM UTC

75dvtwin wrote: post #348

Australia -- the 1st world leader of the modern Progressive policies. 2018 -- citizens loose communication privacy protection [0] 2017 -- whistleblowers and dissidents are committed to mental institutions [1] 2016 -- citizens loose financial transaction privacy (the cashless society with finalized transition by 2020) [2] 1996 -- government confiscated all firearms from the hands of private, law abiding citizens Swede…

> government confiscated all firearms

It's relatively easy to get access to firearms in Australia, including semi-automatic pistols. [0]

The gun control laws mainly affected semi-automatic rifles and shotguns.

[0] https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/10/04/australias-gun-...

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#350

Post by jjcm » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 2:18 AM UTC

dunpeal wrote: post #347

jjcm wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh hey, pwnies from reddit here! It wasn't just me, it was myself and a bunch of my coworkers over at Atlassian. As one of the larger Australian tech companies, many of us are somber today to see this passed. For context, here was the letter we sent: http://i.imgur.com/yRrZHAq.jpg

What's the impact on you going to be like?

Hard to say. The final text of the bill with the amendments that got added this week haven't been published officially yet (https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislat... only the first reading is available). Once it is we'll have to do a full review from legal - it's something a bunch of us are wondering internally right now. There are a lot of loopholes in the bill, so it's hard to say what things we'll be required to do, if any. The bigger impact will be on the world view of the tech scene in Australia. Needless to say this is very damaging, and there are concerns that we wont be able to handle any European data in Australia as it could be a potential violation of GDPR. Again though, that will have to wait until we finish the legal review of the bill and how it impacts us.

In talking with some other companies, some of them are looking at potentially moving any role that would have the ability to compromise encryption outside of the country. That way there'd be no way any employee could be legally forced to implement any backdoors or weakening of encryption. That's an extreme measure and is probably overkill right now as the loophole that states you don't have to do anything to weaken your security will likely be used as a challenge against building in any backdoors. We'll have to wait and see how things pan out.