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Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#201

Post by bunnycorn »

azinman2 wrote: post #80
danpalmer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm assuming I'm not the only one who's afraid of Blink becoming the new Internet Explorer; instead of people following a web standard, they'll follow what's Chrome-compatible. This is already the norm. I use Safari and find many sites have issues. Before that I used Firefox and many sites had issues. Typically the JS works, but styling often looks different (and worse) on Safari and Firefox.

Do you have examples? I use Safari and don’t find this to be true. Given Safari is what people use in iOS, id expect this to be rarely the case (most sites will test on an iPhone).

Probably nothing, since it's more a meme than anything else.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#202

Post by tssva »

taf2 wrote: post #138
tombert wrote: post #22

I'm assuming I'm not the only one who's afraid of Blink becoming the new Internet Explorer; instead of people following a web standard, they'll follow what's Chrome-compatible. It's still better because Chromium is open-source, but I do worry that we're going to have a problem in the future with a lot of broken sites (YTMND-style).

This is not even close to comparable. I’ve said in other threads the issue with IE and really IE6 - was for multiple years Microsoft did zero development. The browser didn’t patch zero day exploits for months or even a whole year. Fundamentally IE6 was an extension of Windows via ActiveX controls. The layout bugs were permanent. Remember zoom:1, hack to fix a layout issue or just float:right etc... Blink is open sour…

Blink already works on arm. Microsoft is working on getting it to work on the arm version of Windows.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#203

Post by abrowne »

partiallypro wrote: post #165

I'm wondering why they decided to keep the Edge brand. It seems dropping it and the "e" logo all together would be ideal. The logo beit IE or Edge has negative emotions for many users. I am excited for this though, because I will probably make the Microsoft browser my default once it launches since it will finally have access to the vast Chrome extension library. But, I still think they will struggle with adoption ju…

There was a blog post I can't find now when they announced Edge that they had to pick a E- name and an E logo otherwise literally millions of people would no longer know how to access "the internet".

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#204

Post by holtalanm »

sureaboutthis wrote: post #188
pcwalton wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I convince Chromium to adopt parallel engine components written in Rust, in this world? They won't do it, because the entire team at Google is staffed by C++ folks. How is that a better outcome?

The same way you would convince any other browser vendor to do the same thing. Good luck with that. But let's not forget that Firefox, Opera, et al, are not going away and no one is forcing you to use Chrome or chromium and there probably won't be any real downside either.

Well, Opera uses Blink, and apparently according to some folks in this thread that is equivalent to using 'big bad Chrome'

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#205

Post by pkasting »

ridiculous_fish wrote: post #37

Honest question: what is the population of committers (not contributors) on Chromium? Is there any significant number outside of Google? Is Chromium de-facto controlled by Google, or more community driven?

There are a significant number of committers outside Google, yes.

The main part of Chromium that matters here is the content layer and below. The biggest single piece of that is Blink, which already uses a governance model with public intent-to-implement/ship notices that anyone can propose or give feedback on.

The single largest group of committers are employed by Google, but there have been increasing contributions, including to core function and direction, from external people; for example, Opera folks were key in helping change the memory model in Blink ("Oilpan").

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#206

Post by bunnycorn »

iaml wrote: post #126
azinman2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have examples? I use Safari and don’t find this to be true. Given Safari is what people use in iOS, id expect this to be rarely the case (most sites will test on an iPhone).

I have personally experienced this bug https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46309641/what-happens-in... .

That's not a bug.

"transparent 0" is not a standard way of defining things, and bad use o CSS in production.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#207

Post by holtalanm »

pcwalton wrote: post #174
holtalanm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but if Microsoft is moving to Blink, wouldn't they, as well, have (as you say) influence on the project? What, really, is a downside to having an open-source web engine that all browsers use? I'm failing to see one. The web would become less fragmented; the web standard would be (only slightly) irrelevant, and we would move forward without having to deal with browsers interpreting the spec/standard differently, which…

How do I convince Chromium to adopt parallel engine components written in Rust, in this world? They won't do it, because the entire team at Google is staffed by C++ folks. How is that a better outcome?

As a web developer, why would I even care about that? I care more about whether it adheres to web standards; or in the absence of a standard, whether it is in-line with other leading browsers.

If all of our leading browsers use the same engine, the answer to that is one and the same.

I mean, I get the point you're trying to make, but the argument doesn't really fit with what I'm saying. As far as I'm concerned go ahead and rewrite Blink in Rust or Go or Common Lisp. As long as it is the main engine, or adheres to the web standards, it really makes no difference to me.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#208

Post by bunnycorn »

holtalanm wrote: post #166
bad_user wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if Microsoft is moving to Blink, wouldn't they, as well, have (as you say) influence on the project? No. 1. Chrome will remain the dominant web browser 2. the Chromium repository itself is owned by Google The only leverage Microsoft is in forking Chromium, but that does nothing to Chrome's market. Google themselves forked WebKit when they couldn't get along with Apple. And that was back when Chrome wasn't as pe…

well, if you look at it now, webkit is BY FAR not the dominant engine. So, by your own logic, if Microsoft ends up in a disagreement with Google about the direction of chromium, whats to stop them from just forking it and becoming the new dominant engine? Chrome will only remain the dominant web browser as long as its users view it as worth the hassle. If Edge is built upon chromium in the future, I'm not going to si…

WebKit is the dominant engine because it's what powers Webviews on Android.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#209

Post by techsupporter »

nemothekid wrote: post #192
techsupporter wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (i'm used to chrome, my information is in chrome, I'm used to the dev tools in chrome, and I personally and selfishly have no reason to switch to Edge, even if it's technically better) Yep, the same can be said for Firefox. There are hundreds of threads with hundreds of comments on places like Hacker News and Reddit and Ars Technica, all grousing about how Google is the behemoth that is taking over, Chrome is bloat…

It's also hard. Despite the complaints of Google dominance, Chrome is just a really good browser. I tried to switch to Firefox Quantum earlier this year as my daily driver. I had some minor annoyances, but I ended up switching back to Chrome for the devtools.

Web dev tools are something I have to take people's word for (and, to be clear, have no reason to doubt) since I don't do that kind of work so I have no clue what makes for good tools versus bad ones. But, my overall point still stands: If this is such a major failing in Firefox, is there nobody passionate enough to help keep a browser--that lots of people claim to want to use but for those tools--up to par with the competition?

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#210

Post by meandmycode »

VoxPelli wrote: post #117
VoxPelli wrote: post #84

Will Microsoft use V8 as the javascript engine then as well or continue to use Chakra? If they won’t continue to use Chakra, what happens to that project then? It is open sourced and there’s work to make Node.js use it: https://github.com/nodejs/node-chakracore All the more important to support Servo and Gecko – we can’t have all browsers be of WebKit origin – we rather need more initiatives like Servo, that reinvent…

I opened an issue to ask: https://github.com/nodejs/node-chakracore/issues/611

They will be using Chromium (blink+V8) but intend to continue the open source development of chakra, but I suppose edgehtml is dead.

Source: https://twitter.com/bterlson/status/1070754781822574592

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