Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#51

Post by pas » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #36

tombert wrote: post #22

I'm assuming I'm not the only one who's afraid of Blink becoming the new Internet Explorer; instead of people following a web standard, they'll follow what's Chrome-compatible. It's still better because Chromium is open-source, but I do worry that we're going to have a problem in the future with a lot of broken sites (YTMND-style).

> instead of people following a web standard, they'll follow what's Chrome-compatible The browser vendors taking the lead over standards committees is how we got this far into HTML5, especially including Apple's/Safari's decision to ditch flash, and the WHATWG actually moving us forward vs the W3C. Unless Blink has a history or an expectation of deprecating serious functionality in the future, is it really so bad if…

W3C might be too slow, but eschewing at least a rough consensus and instead just ramming through whatever you feel like is the other extreme end of the spectrum. And Google is no saint, so if it benefits them and only them, who cares, Chrome will support it, the community be damned. And this - of course - applies to depreciation of functionality. (Think about any web feature/standard as another Google property, like G+ ... scary? But that's where we're headed with the Blink hegemony.)

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#52

Post by mtgx » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

egeozcan wrote: post #13

If Microsoft knew that Edge in its current state is inferior, why did they try so hard to make every windows user switch to it? I mean there was this "startup growth hacking" kind of craziness from a corporation and sudden admittance of defeat... It's very confusing. Edit: We all know why they want everyone to switch don't we, but think about all the now admittedly false marketing! It's not like they stopped the aggr…

> If Microsoft knew that Edge in its current state is inferior, why did they try so hard to make every windows user switch to it?

Because the quality of the product has nothing to do with Microsoft wanting to maintain dominance at all costs. But don't worry, they will continue to try this with the Chromium-based browser, too.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#53

Post by mrpippy » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

negativegate wrote: post #19

MikusR wrote: post #2

In short. Edge engine is dead. Based on Chromium. Not an UWP. Will be on Windows 7 and Mac.

I didn't see any mention of Windows 7 or that it won't be a UWP on Windows, are there more details somewhere?

Agreed. I see zero chance that Edge will suddenly be ported back to Windows 7. And it would be almost as big of a shock if the Chromium-based Edge is not UWP.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#54

Post by sebazzz » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #30

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #5

Man, this sucks. I really wish they had open sourced their new engine and stuck with it. I would have volunteered time porting it to Linux/POSIX as well.

There's still time to open source it. I'm confused why they don't, at this point. Well, not that confused, I guess it ties in to Windows quite a bit and it's probably not worth it for them. Still I hope they do it.

I do not think it is trivial to port EdgeHTML. Don't forget it is a fork of Trident with the legacy parts clipped away and some cogs polished, replaced or added. Not meant to run multi-plat, not even meant to run outside Windows 10.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#55

Post by ridiculous_fish » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

dazhbog wrote: post #6

I hope this move changes the hostile amount of google services that are baked into Chrome and Chromium. Not saying MS is any better, but at least there will be more choices for users and where before everything was hardcoded, now there will be an option to select and potentially expose more customization for us morals.

Which Google services are baked into Chromium?

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#56

Post by robbick » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:36 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #38

sebazzz wrote: post #8

EdgeHTML is also used for embedding HTML into UWP, and controls have been released for WPF and Win32. I wonder what will be the story of that. Will that be transparently changed to Chrome, can it be changed to Chrome or will EdgeHTML be used only for that?

I suspect the rise of Electron apps, including Microsoft's own applications like Visual Studio Code, are actually driving this decision. Effectively within Microsoft, Chromium has already won over EdgeHTML for desktop applications.

This is so important to consider, chromium is more than a browser these days

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#57

Post by sebazzz » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

_nickwhite wrote: post #27

Could this be a bad thing for Firefox? Seems like Microsoft + Google is quite a rival to go against?

Microsoft is not an active rival - at least not from a technical perspective.

It is probably up for Mozilla to make a choice: will we implement the standard or will we mimic the behavior of Blink for compatibility reasons (which may be incorrect in some cases).

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#58

Post by craftyguy » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

_nickwhite wrote: post #27

Could this be a bad thing for Firefox? Seems like Microsoft + Google is quite a rival to go against?

Having more chefs in the kitchen is not necessarily a better thing.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#59

Post by pas » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

egeozcan wrote: post #13

If Microsoft knew that Edge in its current state is inferior, why did they try so hard to make every windows user switch to it? I mean there was this "startup growth hacking" kind of craziness from a corporation and sudden admittance of defeat... It's very confusing. Edit: We all know why they want everyone to switch don't we, but think about all the now admittedly false marketing! It's not like they stopped the aggr…

Users don't care what's inside. Brand awareness is important. Edge will live on, even if it's just a Chromium skin.

And if Google abandons/closes Blink, MS will be forced to spend a bit on browser development again. (Or they'll just fork Firefox.)

Currently it's a win-win for them. They need the web to deliver their services (outlook, office365, azure), now they can develop those cheaper, as they don't have to spend that much on testing as Edge and Chrome will be likely very close.

Re: Microsoft Edge and open source collaboration

#60

Post by detaro » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #36

tombert wrote: post #22

I'm assuming I'm not the only one who's afraid of Blink becoming the new Internet Explorer; instead of people following a web standard, they'll follow what's Chrome-compatible. It's still better because Chromium is open-source, but I do worry that we're going to have a problem in the future with a lot of broken sites (YTMND-style).

> instead of people following a web standard, they'll follow what's Chrome-compatible The browser vendors taking the lead over standards committees is how we got this far into HTML5, especially including Apple's/Safari's decision to ditch flash, and the WHATWG actually moving us forward vs the W3C. Unless Blink has a history or an expectation of deprecating serious functionality in the future, is it really so bad if…

I don't think you can conclude from "things got better when browser vendors took over" that it'd be the same if there was one vendor dominating. They keep each other honest at least to a degree, forcing that issues are discussed and things thought out instead of someone in a browser team coming up with an idea and shipping it the first way they can come up with.