> the worse civil unrest ever seen in France It's major, but quite far from the worst we've ever had.
The article even mentions the French Revolution!
During the French Revolution, the police didn't run out of tear gas. This one is clearly bigger.
How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
151–160 of 181 posts
Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Am I wrong to find it weird that the seemingly liberal, "woke" French are rioting over a carbon tax? Yes, the French routing over taxes is not historically uncommon, and the French aren't unified ideologically, and particularly aren't uniformly left-wing. And, as I understand, it's not as simple as just carbon taxes, either.
I understand the french-are-liberal trope, but, as an American, I view countries like Canada, France, and Germany as way farther left than the US. Economically, and culturally. We see much less representation of their conservatives here. Pardon me for being slightly ignorant on this, and thank you for the reminder.
Something interesting I caught on the radio this morning and that I find really relevant, is that while Yellow Vests have people from both ends of the political spectrum, the far-right is not anti welfare state at all.
LePen's Rassemblement National is anti-immigration, and anti Europe or anti globalization, so in this regard could be close to some of Trump's positions but is not at all against welfare state.
Most people protesting want less gas taxes, but not at the cost of lesser healthcare or education.
I believe this is a position that does not really exist in the American political spectrum.
So it was explained by the speaker that culturally French people are more on the side of "Social Justice" rather than "Freedom", but that does necessarily means there are more "liberal" than "conservative". It can look similar but if you are looking really close, you cannot really apply American labels. I believe this is one of the reason it looks confusing and it is hard to explain from an outsider perspective.
Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
#153Can someone explain the nuances of these protests? Am I wrong to find it weird that the seemingly liberal, "woke" French are rioting over a carbon tax? Aren't carbon taxes progressive and environmentally responsible?
It's very complicated to explain because it's not a "traditional" movement run by a leader/political party/union. Protesters are all over the political spectrum. It's the combination of (real and/or perceived): - rise of inequalities - new taxes (including the carbon tax) - removal of taxes impacting only the rich - sentiment of neglect of the rural areas by the government - disdain for lower classes by Macron - lowe…
Right now the right wing media in the US is gleefully attributing the protests primarily to the carbon tax.
Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
#154How is this any different from the Arab Spring? Why should this be silenced while the Arab Spring had to amplified?
The French protesters are not risking a stay in the Palmyra prison. (Warning: even text descriptions of what went on there are NSFL)
Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s odd because they pick and choose which “violence” is right and wrong. When Arab spring (in the end a very destabilizing movement) was facilitated by FB and Twitter it was great. When it facilitates caravan protests it’s great. When it facilitates anti-tax movements that threaten viability of an unpopular (vis a vis locals) but popular internationally (ie elites) then it’s seen as facilitating “bad” protests. Obv…
Who is “they”? Your little anti-media ciclejerk here seems to target “the media”. But you can’t all be so dense as to not notice that this is just some guy on medium.com, right?
He's actually much worse than a media member, he's a professor of journalism.
Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's very complicated to explain because it's not a "traditional" movement run by a leader/political party/union. Protesters are all over the political spectrum. It's the combination of (real and/or perceived): - rise of inequalities - new taxes (including the carbon tax) - removal of taxes impacting only the rich - sentiment of neglect of the rural areas by the government - disdain for lower classes by Macron - lowe…
And maybe interesting, or dangerous depending on the point of view, amongst the rioters you got both far-left and far-right movements on the same side, which is something that does not happen that often.
it'd be helpful to explain what far right and far left mean in the context of France, as I doubt it's the same thing as in e.g. USA.
Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
#157Can someone explain the nuances of these protests? Am I wrong to find it weird that the seemingly liberal, "woke" French are rioting over a carbon tax? Aren't carbon taxes progressive and environmentally responsible?
The french are not one uniform group. Same in Belgium: in Brussels last week, there were violent protests by a few thousand "yellow vests". The next day, there was a much larger (65K people) climate change manifestation without incident. I personally saw multiple moms feeding babies during that march.
We're at a point now where we have to give up priviliges to slow down climate change. Even if the majority agrees to do it, some will refuse and turn violent. And unfortunately, the violence will cause more headlines.
Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
#158Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
And maybe interesting, or dangerous depending on the point of view, amongst the rioters you got both far-left and far-right movements on the same side, which is something that does not happen that often.
it'd be helpful to explain what far right and far left mean in the context of France, as I doubt it's the same thing as in e.g. USA.
Far left would be anarchists, black-blocs, and a few communists in there too.
Far right would be openly pro-nazi, or Vichy nostalgic small organizations like Oeuvre Française and other dissolved and then formed again groups. Add unaffiliated fascist skinheads in the mix.
Then again, almost every nuance of the spectrum between those two is represented in the protesters.
Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
Socialism is populism on the Left (i.e. distributing wealth at the point of a gun). Populism on the Right is instead via a more democratic method of building a strong market that lifts all ships.
>Populism on the Right is instead via a more democratic method of building a strong market that lifts all ships. ...also at the point of a gun. You're being disingenuous in evoking the monopoly of force but only applying it to "the left", in order to imply that, "socialist" governance is more coercive (and thus less legitimate) than any other. If you live in a state that collects taxes or regulates the market, or any…
Socialist Populism seeks wealth redistribution for individuals by using force against people (in addition to organizations) via taxation.
Market Populism seeks wealth redistribution for organizations by using force against organizations exclusively to break up local maxima (monopolies, duopolies, etc.).
Both use force, but one operates on the individual level, the other at the organizational level.