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The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

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Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#301
Is this a joke? That whole blog post reads like satire.

Communicating with the people in our lives is one of the most important things we do every day, whether it’s chatting with friends about an upcoming trip, calling mom to check in, or touching base with colleagues.

So when I'm forced to move off hangouts for those connections that I still user over it - what do you think the chances are that I will choose a google product?

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#302

WhatsApp is better than any of this nonsense. It has all the features and more. Hangouts/GoogleTalk was nice. Don’t know what this profusion of crap is for.

Turn your phone off and send a message to someone from your computer. Oh wait...

Huh, I’ve done this before. Don’t know why you’re acting like it’s not a thing.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was there when that happened. The whole rebranding/transition of GTalk/GChat was the result of some political muscle flex by Social and its army of PMs, then after Social lost its favorite child status Allo was born as a result, championed by another army of PMs, and I wonder if Duo had a similar story of birth. >Google could have been a major player in messaging if they had just stuck with GChat/Google talk from t…

This is a great behind the scenes view. What is Social? Is that at major product vertical within Google? "Possibly" is a potential good answer here :).

Social needed features for G+ and success in social was seen as important (everyone's bonus was tied to it). So Hangouts became a G+ headline feature despite having very little to do with social.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was there when that happened. The whole rebranding/transition of GTalk/GChat was the result of some political muscle flex by Social and its army of PMs, then after Social lost its favorite child status Allo was born as a result, championed by another army of PMs, and I wonder if Duo had a similar story of birth. >Google could have been a major player in messaging if they had just stuck with GChat/Google talk from t…

What is a PM? I am getting insight into how google works because this sounds like a bunch of idiotic internal wars between acronym teams instead of focusing on making actual useful products.

PM is a super heavily overloaded term that you'll run across in pretty much any company larger than small, definitely not specific to Google (disclaimer: I work at Google and don't speak for the company, but I'm brand new so my conception of the categories comes from what I've seen elsewhere). Engineers tend to raise an eyebrow at the entire job category because they're thinking of bad experiences with one particular flavor of PM (and often a particularly poor specimen at that), but that can be unfair, a lot of what they do is absolutely critical to business.

The acronym simply means either product manager, project manager, or program manager, but the responsibilities can be any/all of the following, and probably more, depending on the company:

- Full product owner, "the buck stops here" person. Many different possible titles here other than PM (usually "project manager" if that's the title), like general manager (GM), different flavors of producer, product owner (PO), VP of X, etc.

- Feature designer/owner/manager (product manager): writing specs (junior), pitching specs (mid-level), setting and selling product vision (senior), driving strategy (staff/exec, though at that level all roles start to get blurry). Decent business school grad representation here, you have to be good at strategy, negotiation, communication, and Powerpoint; having good product ideas helps a lot, too, but not if you can't sell them. A persuasive PM of this type is a force to be reckoned with and will get a lot of executive attention, which can be very good or very bad depending on whether the strategy they're into pans out or not. This is probably the type of PM the parent was talking about "armies of".

- Development director (project manager or program manager): a whip-cracker at worst or an impenetrable shitshield at best, they manage the practicalities of running a project, like project scoping, meeting and managing hard/soft deadlines, handling support, cross-team communications, processes, compliance, etc., often stepping in as an all-purpose guard against randomization so that others can focus on producing the product. Many PMs of this type ended up being the go-to folks for GDPR compliance over the past couple years, so it's not just internal process stuff that they deal with.

- Task checker: can blend into to the development director mentioned above, but at some companies this sort of PM will mainly focus on tracking tasks that are in-progress, getting estimates, watching velocity, and sending reports up the chain. Some devs find this role pointless and annoying, but it really depends on how good they are - if they're solid, they'll find a lot of ways to improve things instead of just tracking them.

- Scrum Master (project manager): Big-S Scrum is falling out of favor so it's not as fashionable to have this title anymore, but within some processes a similar role still exists as a type of project manager. In a nutshell, Scrum is a simple yet effective "People Over Process" process that consists of a bi-weekly no-laptops-allowed retrospective meeting where you get the team together to have a free-ranging discussion where everyone feels heard, so that you can all decide together whether the team should estimate engineering tasks in terms of hours or hats. You need a trained and certified Master because otherwise people new to Scrum might not know to pick hats. A more seasoned Scrum Master will also schedule a quarterly retrospective-retrospective where the team discusses a strategy for what guidelines to put in place for the next retrospective so that the team can decide on hats faster and leave more time for the less settled question about whether or not the Fibonacci sequence is the right way to count hats or if a size-based approach will make people feel better supported in their work.

- Monetization designer (product manager): mainly at game companies, PM is often a super different role, probably best described as the profitability-focused counterpart to a game designer. They focus on setting prices, managing game economies, speccing and evaluating A/B tests, inventing loot boxes, etc. Ideally PM and designer would be one and the same, and the game design would be holistic with the monetization, with a designer that has serious Excel/analytics chops and deep inspiration and sensitivity about gameplay, but that's a more rare combination than you'd think, so a lot of companies split them out.

I'm probably missing some other ways this acronym is overloaded, but I think this covers most of it.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#305
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't possibly disagree more. Voice comms are _hideously_ inefficient and limited compared to chats and virtually always an inferior option in a group context, in a professional context, and especially for a professional team. They always interrupt one person, and every additional person involved is a decision about how much more time and attention to take and how many more interruptions to make balanced against…

Try the two with a chess timer aside. I have done that many time and see the result. Doing a thing at a time, so being interrupted, prove to be FAR more productive than doing many thing at a time. Of course if you interact with professional people, if you have to interact with brainless individuals that can't even express themselves in their language well... It's another story, but even in this case it's wasted time.

When you time a voice chat, are you also including the time to document what was said and share it with the team?

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked around the problem you describe by getting a google voice number and using that at the front end for my real numbers. My GV# is the face for whatsapp, telegram, whatever asks for my number. Also helps that I can send and receive sms over data or WiFi anywhere in the world. Doesn’t work with some sms gateways that don’t y’all GV, but the best international I know. Each country gets a new sim with a local numb…

I tried this a few years ago, it only worked for American customers. But it did save me some money making calls. Last I checked they basically abandoned their mobile app for a near decade...

The mobile app is poor, but can send texts and push text alerts to me.

I think GV is limited to US numbers and you have to have a US number to sign up.

It places a burden on my contacts who want to send an sms because they have to use international rates. But it’s better than not being able to text me.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only “green” people I know are google employees and my mom, who can’t afford an iPhone. The solution is simple to their problem- buy an iPhone. It’s almost like the iPhone is a fetish or totem that grants access to iMessage (although you can message from macos or iCloud.com impractically). It’s quite strange how this is a very simple, solved, problem for iPhone for many years. Google can fix it by literally cloni…

Okay, your experience is ... not representative. In this world there are tons of people using iphones, tons of other people using android. You see both frequently. There happen to be way more people using android but it doesn't matter, because there are sizable numbers using both, we should only consider solutions that work on both.

I agree, it’s not representative at all. But my point is that android users have problems because of the device they buy. There are likely trade offs. But google doesn’t want to solve this problem on a way that customers want.

It’s like buying a diesel vehicle and then complaining that the hybrid systems suck for them. Don’t buy a diesel if you want hybrid engines. Or work with the manufacturer to change their incentive model.

But google is an ad company and is unlikely to make products where it is hard to sell ads.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#308

I'm pretty sure this blog post was forced due to the recent articles about Hangouts and Allo on 9to5google.com [0], [1]. Thinking that Messages, which uses SMS and RCS were available, would have any impact on messaging is wishful thinking at best. Where I live almost nobody uses SMS for person to person conversations, it's mainly used for package notifications, 2FA codes, and so on. RCS isn't available as far as I kn…

> Where I live almost nobody uses SMS for person to person Isn't that recursive thinking? No one uses SMS because it's primitive and limited compared to regular messengers. > I wouldn't want to use a mobile only protocol I'm curious, but could RCS be interchangeably used both through provider and through a host such as Google? Could Google not host their own RCS backend?

> No one uses SMS because it's primitive and limited compared to regular messengers.

You also have to take into account that SMS is 5-10 times more expensive almost everywhere outside the US. Unless you have a flat-rate plan, a single 140 character messages is about 10 cents where I live. And even if you have a flat-rate plan for domestic messages, it's 1-2 USD (per message!) when sent to friends and family abroad. I don't use SMS because it's just being ridiculously over-priced. I want my device to use data to send data, regardless of what kind it is.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hangouts integrates your Google Voice and Google Fi texts right into web pages like GMail, contacts, etc. And this works even if your phone is off, lost, broken, or has no service. Hangouts also works on any device with an internet connection if you log in. You can text and call from your number on literally any device just by signing into hangouts. None of the multitude of other redundant Google messaging products d…

You should add that no product from anyone else has this capability, even on iPhone.

I use iMessage and FaceTime across many devices that are not my iPhone. What I can't do is go to a random computer and sign in to see my messages.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#310
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's basically Hangouts. I sms more from my computer than my phone but it's all synced everywhere. I'm even smsing with a co-worker from my tablet right now.

Your "That's basically Hangouts" arrangements statement is true when it comes to: >It's also synced to all my devices flawlessly. But as for Hangouts being flawless messaging and not just some buggy app, I have to disagree. Often I'll type a message and hit send, it will stay in sending and never actually send. I'll need to kill the app and when I reopen, the message is gone but if I retype it and hit send, it sends…

I've only ever had this happen on very very patchy internet connections. Usually when there's a captive portal that I haven't logged into (so the app doesn't know it's being blackholed).
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