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Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

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Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#501

Post by bzbarsky »

cbzbc wrote: post #367
TimTheTinker wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an idea - you could try putting them to bed 15 min earlier every few days, and if they have trouble sleeping put on a short kids audiobook. Two of the most peaceful I know of from Audible are “The Tailor of Gloucester” read by Meryl Streep and “The Little House”.

Also depends on how young they are, if they are of reading age, then putting them to bed a little earlier and then allowing them to read for 15-20 minutes on their own can also be another way of calming them down. Some of the kids mindfulness podcasts (Peace Out as an example) are also good for this kind of thing

One is of reading age, one is just about there.

The one of reading age is already reading after he's in bed. The hard part is getting him to stop and actually go to sleep.

I will look into the podcasts; thank you for the suggestion!

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#502

Post by bzbarsky »

artpepper2 wrote: post #444
usefulcat wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, maybe they would benefit from an earlier bedtime? Not being snarky, am a parent myself.

Anecdotally based on my kid (n=1), stopping screen time about an hour before bedtime helps. However, she still seems wired to fall sleep at a certain time, and we finally decided that fighting biology is a losing battle. The strategy of moving bedtime a little bit earlier each day didn't work at all.

There's definitely no screen time involved anywhere near bedtime. But yes, I'm pretty sure it would not help if there were!

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#503

Post by bzbarsky »

snambi wrote: post #449
bzbarsky wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter-anecdote, we have to get our kids up by 7:30 to get them to their elementary school on time, and it's a battle every single morning. Left to their own devices, they would sleep to at least 8:30. Kids are different, and we really don't have very good ways of dealing with that in some ways...

If the schools are fun and a great experience, the kids would wake up at 5 for school. The schools are so boring and useless, the kids obviously find no use or interest in attending them.

The kids are very happy to _go_ to school once they've woken up enough. It's that first 20 minutes after we start trying to wake them up that are miserable.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#504

Post by jayd16 »

sturgill wrote: post #316
LargeWu wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of elementary schools start early because of parent pressure to start early, because parents need to get their kids to school so they can get to work themselves. We are lucky that our school district provides before and after school programs since my daughter's elementary school doesn't start until after 9:00 AM.

I don’t see a lot of evidence that elementary schools have started classes earlier as more households have relied on both parents working. I _have_ seen an increase in after-school programs to make up the gap between school letting out and parents getting off of work. The battle to get up early is about as old as time. We aren’t that far removed from an agrarian-based economy, and farm work has always required very e…

>I don’t see a lot of evidence

Have you actually looked? Ask some parents and see what replies you get.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#505

Post by Terretta »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #408
topkai22 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually did the math on this in my district. Based on the cost data they published, it costs (roughly) $1.5-2/ride on our school bus system. Allowing 20 minutes for pick up and drop off, no current ride-sharing system I know about would be cost competitive, but its a relatively close thing. RE carpooling, this probably cost competitive but their are other factors that make this harder than you think. Buses are all…

> Buses are allowed exemptions to booster seat rules, minivans aren't Buses are allowed exemptions for pragmatic reasons, not safety reasons. Whatever the rule is, it should be the same for both, in which case there is no relative advantage. If you're not willing to allow it for a minivan, why are you willing to allow it for a bus? (This also doesn't apply to high school students who don't need them anyway.) > How do…

> no relative advantage

Speed doesn’t kill, change in speed kills.

With significant mass at play, a bus in a collission doesn’t change speed as suddenly as a car, thus passengers experience less G force.

The rule does appear to relate to weight, and safety reasons:

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/01/why-the-schoo...

Notable quote:

> Federal agencies like the National Highway Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) have long maintained that even without seat belts, school buses are the safest mode of transportation for children. Between 2005 and 2014, NHTSA reported 1,191 crashes involving school buses or other vehicles functioning as school buses. That makes up less than 1 percent of the 331,730 fatal collisions in those 10 years. Among the 133 people who die each year on average in related crashes, only 11 are bus passengers or drivers.

However, that doesn’t help when the bus collides with an immovable object, so the rules are being reconsidered.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#506

Post by andybak »

iambateman wrote: post #400
andybak wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that there is an eternal secret war between morning people and evening people and the morning people are winning. Resistance must be done in secret but fight back in every way you can.

The first rule of the resistance is that we don’t talk about the resistance with people who find 5:30am tolerable. ;)

Cough. Timezones. Cough...

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#507

Post by ThrowMeDown01 »

usefulcat wrote: post #323
bzbarsky wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter-anecdote, we have to get our kids up by 7:30 to get them to their elementary school on time, and it's a battle every single morning. Left to their own devices, they would sleep to at least 8:30. Kids are different, and we really don't have very good ways of dealing with that in some ways...

So, maybe they would benefit from an earlier bedtime? Not being snarky, am a parent myself.

> maybe they would benefit from an earlier bedtime?

One can try but you will be limited by biology: The problem is that our internal clocks are reset by daylight. You can't just shift yourself to another timezone, since your circadian rhythm will always set itself back to the respective local time. So if your brain prefers you to go to sleep and to wake up at certain points it will always be relative to "local (sunlight) time", not relative to human clock time.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#508

Post by ValCanBuild »

I've been unfortunate enough to have my 2 year old daugther hospitalised 4 times already and every time, in every ward, she slept very little.

Constant sources of lights, machines that beep. I get they're serving a purpose but an oxygen monitor going off at full volume every 20 minutes, really? You're telling me that cannot be replaced with a smarter machine that just sends a signal directly to the nurses instead of beeping up the place?

After every hospital stay she fell asleep immediately when we got home and slept for over 12 hours just to recover.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#509

Post by jyounker »

pc86 wrote: post #268
gerbilly wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> during pre-med training: with on-call work hours up to 120 hours a week. Can someone please tell me why they still put medical students through this institutional hazing?

Saying that "pre-med training" (whatever that means) consists of 120 hour work weeks is not accurate but it's probably just because we're using the wrong words. Pre-med = college, and aside from the highly scientific work load is no different than any other college experience. Medical school (no longer called "pre-med" by anyone) is typically 2 years of classes and 2 years of clinical rotations. The rotations are not…

And on top of those 60-80 hours per week you need to add all the time prepping for exams and boards, correct? That study time is work too, and that pushing up to 120 hours per week.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#510

Post by jyounker »

pc86 wrote: post #271
jyounker wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, my partner had the option of either going home directly after surgery or spending the night in the hospital. The hospital staff wanted her to go home. She wanted to stay. (She has issues with post-surgical pain.) If the hospital staff had sent her home, she would not be woken every two hours. The medical staff were fine with that. It would have been perfectly reasonable for them to let her sleep; it would have be…

> Clearly it was optional. Unless there was some regulatory, legal, or hospital requirement that she receive a certain standard of care. They may have been fine with her sleeping through the night at home, but if she's in the hospital they need to take care of her. It would not be an easy sell in a courtroom to explain that while you checked everyone except her every 3 hours, you let her sleep through the night and t…

Clearly there was an organizational reason, but those reasons had nothing to do with what she actually needed according to her physicians, which was rest and painkillers.

What you've just said supports the article's argument that hospitals are designed to prevent people from sleeping.

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