Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended • Hacker News Board

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#31

Post by gonzo41 » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:11 AM UTC

hestefisk wrote: post #9

I live in Australia and this is the dumbest bill I have ever seen in parliament. Australian politicians have no clue what the fuck they have just done. Rushed through in less than four days so they can go on holidays. Bigots.

I'm pretty sure it's still illegal to show a naked mannequin in Tasmania. There are plenty of stupid laws on the books. This is one. For sure! But read the guardian blog from today. The opposition is avoiding having to fight against "Mr. Stop the boats.".

And as for rushed through. Lots of stupid shit took a ton of time. Like the marriage survey that could have been done in 15 minutes.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#32

Post by brokenmachine » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:15 AM UTC

artichokeheart wrote: post #22

To anyone with a business from anywhere else in the world. Yes please do, publicly and loudly, cease to deal with us (Australia) due to the very real possibility that all of you private and commercially sensitive communications will be monitored and recorded (Also given the five eyes agreement shared with other countries.) Australia already have a history of using their spy services for commercial gain. https://en.m.…

God this is so true. I am so ashamed of our so-called representatives.

Please, Apple, do what you know is right and disable all iPhones in Australia. Google, please do the same with Android.

If you have a website, geoblock Australia from it.

Quarantine us from the world. We are sick and will infect you all.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#33

Post by shakna » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:18 AM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #19

steve_taylor wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Officially, they can’t, but you can be absolutely certain that iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram are going to be immediately targeted with TCNs (technical capability notice), requiring them to bundle Australian government spyware and requiring that those apps send all conversations to the spyware.

This isn't quite true. The bill allows companies to provide statistics on how many TARs, TANs, and TCNs they've been served within a 6-month window. The obvious problem is that nothing stops them from lying or just omitting that information -- because why would you admit that your software is insecure?

Employees of a company may also be served, and required not to tell their employer. So a company may not know if they are compromised.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#34

Post by rswail » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:18 AM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #10

rswail wrote: post #8

It's a stupid law passed by stupid politicians. The only thing to do now is to demand that ALP politicians reverse it in the next sitting of Parliament.

ALP voted for it unanimously. I don't hold out much hope that they'll reverse course -- we should push for third parties in the next election.

They voted for it to cover Bill's ass on the last day of parliament and 2 weeks of Dutton and ScoMo getting dumb people scared about Xmas.

The amendments to this stupid act do gut a lot of the stupidities (not completely), so the pressure now is to make this (and the Nauru re-settlement) the only thing that the ALP allows on the first days of parliament next year.

Write to your MPs, the shadow ministers and the cross bench.

Writing to the LNP politicians is a pointless exercise.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#35

Post by mtgx » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:18 AM UTC

hestefisk wrote: post #9

I live in Australia and this is the dumbest bill I have ever seen in parliament. Australian politicians have no clue what the fuck they have just done. Rushed through in less than four days so they can go on holidays. Bigots.

> Rushed through in less than four days so they can go on holidays.

It was planned this way by the intelligence agencies and its supporters. It always is.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#36

Post by brokenmachine » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:21 AM UTC

Could an expat Australian dev be compelled to put backdoors in software even while overseas, under threat of being prosecuted when he returns?

If so, Australians can't even be employed in foreign software companies.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#37

Post by apatters » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:22 AM UTC

healsjnr1 wrote: post #15

This is another thing that adds to my deep sense of shame to live in this country (sadly, that list is long and growing). This bill does nothing to prevent the kinds of things it is intended to prevent. The apps this law targets were engineered specifically to prevent this kind of interference. The idea that passing legislation will suddenly change that, magically allowing decryption of messages is beyond idiotic. Th…

> This is another thing that adds to my deep sense of shame to live in this country (sadly, that list is long and growing).

I don't support this legislation, but I have to ask, which country is doing a better job on human rights issues than Australia in your opinion? Surely not China or nearly any country in Asia, Africa, or South America? Surely not the US? Probably not much of Europe?

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#38

Post by acutesoftware » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:23 AM UTC

I am an Australian software developer and am currently getting https://www.lifepim.com ready for release which, funnily enough has the main selling point as "Your data is private, secure and free from adverts" - what a joke.

The scary part is not knowing how the law is going to be implemented - I am hopeful that smart people work on the implementation of it in terms of practicality.

If it is an on request thing "give us the details of terrorist@blah.com" then that is doable, but if they really want backdoor access to all accounts, then that is ridiculous amount of work and a lot of security risks to worry about.

Wait and see I guess.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#39

Post by schappim » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:24 AM UTC

brokenmachine wrote: post #32

artichokeheart wrote: post #22

To anyone with a business from anywhere else in the world. Yes please do, publicly and loudly, cease to deal with us (Australia) due to the very real possibility that all of you private and commercially sensitive communications will be monitored and recorded (Also given the five eyes agreement shared with other countries.) Australia already have a history of using their spy services for commercial gain. https://en.m.…

God this is so true. I am so ashamed of our so-called representatives. Please, Apple, do what you know is right and disable all iPhones in Australia. Google, please do the same with Android. If you have a website, geoblock Australia from it. Quarantine us from the world. We are sick and will infect you all.

I really hope Apple does this. Half the politicians seem to use iPads for all their computing needs.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#40

Post by rswail » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 10:24 AM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #21

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #14

Is there a (non-alarmist/non-defensive/non-partisan) summary available of what the bill actually contains and what its practical effects might be?

I'd recommend actually reading the bill to form your own conclusions. The main problem is that it mostly is a series of amendments, and many of them are quite unrelated. Most of the discussion is about the Technical Capability Notice section (which allows the government to compel a telecommunication provider, under threat of 5 years imprisonment, to create the ability to access communications otherwise inaccessible)…

The best discussion I've found in terms of the legislation is at [1].

The most insidious part to me as a programmer, is the definition of a "Designated Communications Provider" which (amongst others) includes (S317C, item 6):

"the person develops, supplies or updates software used, for use, or likely to be used, in connection with: (a) a listed carriage service; or (b) an electronic service that has one or more end-users in Australia"

and the "eligible activities" are:

(a) the development by the person of any such software; or (b) the supply by the person of any such software; or (c) the updating by the person of any such software"

[1] https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bi...