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The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

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Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#271

Post by beagle3 »

brendanmc6 wrote: post #51

I have lived back and forth between Europe and the USA over the last few years. Communication is always the most difficult part of the move. It's a reminder of how far off our tech is from the true ideal. In Europe, everyone has WhatsApp. For a while, this was great! One app, one "to reply" list. A taste of what messaging could be. I quickly found myself frustrated. WhatsApp relies on phone numbers, which muddies up…

Until you find the ultimate solution (good luck), here's my practical solution:

1) Port your US number to Google Voice for a one time fee of $25 ; from now on, you can use this number to forward to your new verizon number (also: T-Mobile had much better plans for only a few months at a time, every single time I checked).

2) Get service in Europe from an Illiad affiliated phone company; At least in the past, that included free US numbers you could forward your US google voice to freely -- as well as 15-45 days of free US roaming service. Maybe these offers are gone now - you could just pay $1/month or so to LocalPhone or a similar company to do that forwarding for you.

3) Buy the cheapest Android handset running a recent version (for security updates); I got a new Meizu m6 for ~$90, you could probably go lower for 1st hand or get a 2nd hand at $40 or so.

4) When travelling, switch SIMs between main phone and cheap phone, set up forwarding (directly if included in plan, or through LocalPhone or similar if not), and keep cheap phone on WiFi only, plugged in charging at home, and mostly accessible for when needed.

5) Use WhatsApp web on the new phone to continue using old WhatsApp number. Less than ideal - messages don't pop up - but it works well.

For about $100 one time[0], and about $1/month or so, you could to keep both numbers fully functional and working indefinitely.

[0] Ok, so you'll have to upgrade the cheap phone for security reasons every few years. So not exactly one time, but possible $20/year amortized, or free if you don't trade-in your old main phone and just let it rot like many people do.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#272

Post by crottypeter »

notatoad wrote: post #181
tehlike wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"iMessage doesn't have single click to video, but it's also automatic." I don't think i got what you are saying... What do you mean automatic?

you message somebody, and they get the message. you don't have to think about what app you're using or what app they're using.

Also it's very hard to debug...

A friend on iOS think he has sent you a (SMS) text message.

You don't get it on your (non-apple) phone.

You don't get it on your (non-apple) work computer.

Three weeks later you log on to your iMac/mac-mini/whatever that you hardly ever use to find messages from whoever uses apple phones and has your email address on their contacts. It turns out that logging in to your desktop PC can link your AppleId (email address) to iMessage and start swallowing your text messages. You can only rectify this setting on an apple computer.

(Yes, I know I'm an edge case but I will never see iMessage as a good thing, walled gardens can suck).

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#273

Post by beagle3 »

secabeen wrote: post #203
sorenjan wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If email and SMS was invented today, they wouldn't be open and decentralized. Everything is locked and centralized nowadays, since everything is tied to accounts at companies wanting to make money of of you. It's the current state of the Internet, a world wide open network with siloed incompatible services. I'm actually contemplating ICQ, it's still around and looks no worse than any other service. Matrix might be a…

Yep. 20 years ago, if you developed something cool, you open sourced it. Now, you turn it into a SAAS startup and monetize it to make your millions.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

ICQ, AIM, MSN Messenger, PawWaw, Yahoo Messenger, Odigo, (and 30 more names I can't remeber) - there was a huge instant messaging war, the first stage of which was decidedly won by AOL (with AIM and the purchase of ICQ), but Microsoft later made great headway through sheer monopoly force and persistence - but that eventually became irrelevant with SMS taking over as the main form of instant messaging and then WhatsApp taking the world by storm.

None of this was open source. Not a single one of the successful messengers. In fact, AOL fought alternative clients fiercely all the time, and Microsoft started fighting them as soon as they got non-trivial market share.

What about XMPP (Which started life as Jabber before being standardized?)? Well, that one is open source. But it only survived and flourished because all the commercial outfits were busy fighting each other.

I was tangentially involved with the failed instant messaging standardization process at the turn of the millennium, and Jabber was by far the worst technical proposal at the time -- but the process was political, and when the committee disbanded due to all the political infighting, Jabber, which didn't have the commercial interests, was the remaining option.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#274

Post by openplatypus »

tubaguy50035 wrote: post #257
Eridrus wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal and Allo actually have a similar number of installs, they're both in the 10-50m installs bucket in the Play store. I use Signal, but it's fine at best, but it's not really going to break out of it's niche.

I can't deal with how signal desktop works. I DO NOT want messaging tied to my phone. I want it tied to an account that works wherever I sign in. I'd love to use Signal, but can't deal with that.

Sounds like what you are looking for is Wire (wire.com).

Desktop/mobile clients. No need for phone to login.

Oh, and server code written in Haskell :)

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#275

Post by tempestn »

tehlike wrote: post #151
tlow wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely seems Google is bad at Product Design, but certainly they do not lack for the best talent, so is the problem based upon the structure of the org, stakeholders, something else, both, neither?

It's lack of vision. There are not many in the company who strives for the best product, or have the vision to make a change. As the company got larger, people started caring for more about career and less about great products. People who solve for some director's problem got promoted over the ones who truly deserved it. Unfortunately, some of the smartest people i know now also looks down on google. This one kid tha…

It really seems like the company must be lacking top-down leadership. It almost seems cliché to bring up Steve Jobs here, but the contrast is striking. One could argue he took things too far the other way: There was one iPhone. It was the perfect size. Hell, there was one mouse button. It was the correct number of buttons. For everyone. But still, it's laughable to imagine this kind of fractured insanity happening at Apple, and for the most part that was to their benefit.

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#276

Post by beagle3 »

brendanmc6 wrote: post #141
prepend wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked around the problem you describe by getting a google voice number and using that at the front end for my real numbers. My GV# is the face for whatsapp, telegram, whatever asks for my number. Also helps that I can send and receive sms over data or WiFi anywhere in the world. Doesn’t work with some sms gateways that don’t y’all GV, but the best international I know. Each country gets a new sim with a local numb…

I tried this a few years ago, it only worked for American customers. But it did save me some money making calls. Last I checked they basically abandoned their mobile app for a near decade...

The GV app is usable again recently - it was never really abandoned, just not given any major attention for a while. It did lose the "call back" option, which is a bummer.

However, installing the Hangouts client will let you use it as a better GV app for every day use (messages/voice, for settings and stuff you still need the GV app or the GV website).

At least until Hangout dies ...

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#277

Post by skocznymroczny »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #227
Cookingboy wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was there when that happened. The whole rebranding/transition of GTalk/GChat was the result of some political muscle flex by Social and its army of PMs, then after Social lost its favorite child status Allo was born as a result, championed by another army of PMs, and I wonder if Duo had a similar story of birth. >Google could have been a major player in messaging if they had just stuck with GChat/Google talk from t…

What is a PM? I am getting insight into how google works because this sounds like a bunch of idiotic internal wars between acronym teams instead of focusing on making actual useful products.

I believe PM is for Project Manager

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#278

Post by dflock »

brendanmc6 wrote: post #84
mrkstu wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the brilliance of iMessage where it gets critical mass- fallback to SMS but pushing the iMessage identity tied to an account that follows you to new phones/devices. I think that iMessage network effect is a big reason for the steady market share growth of iPhone in the US- none of the competitive apps have cross-generational appeal, just iMessage.

I agree with you, but a hardware specific messaging app is just stupid. As you can tell by the length of my last post, thinking about this situation has got me upset. So upset, that right now I've decided to launch a non-profit, open collective organization called OOMA. Only One Messaging App. OOMA will be comprised of the millions of people who are annoyed and upset at the result of tech companies competing for our…

Ooooh - the worlds biggest bikeshed ;)

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#279

Post by flarg »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #277
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a PM? I am getting insight into how google works because this sounds like a bunch of idiotic internal wars between acronym teams instead of focusing on making actual useful products.

I believe PM is for Project Manager

Product manager

Re: The latest on Messages, Allo, Duo and Hangouts

#280

Post by tempestn »

This article is a good summary of all the past and current attempts Google has made at messaging, for those like me who can't keep up. Outside of maybe Google employees, is there anyone who can at this point?

https://www.androidauthority.com/google-messaging-apps-86784...

It really just cements the impression that there's absolutely no consistent leadership vision over there.

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