China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

Neither are batteries.

>Plus there may be new safety considerations compared to when trolleys were retired.

Like what? What new safety consideration prevents us from using overhead power lines now? And trolleys were not retired in lots of cities.

Also, that’s the cost of being first. Early adopters pay more.

I agree that it’s expendive tho. But I don’t mind as a taxpayer. I’m glad the city is forward thinking in some areas.

Again, you are incorrect here. If you don't believe me, please come to London (or any one of dozens of cities in China and Europe) where battery electric buses routinely operate all day, every day, with overnight recharging only.

> "There's tons of Diesel buses that are decades old and in use."

In London, virtually all diesel buses are retired by the time they are 10 years old. They often are then sold on to other operators where they get less intensive use, but in London it is uneconomical to continue operating old buses. Maintenance costs increase with age, and breakdowns are costly and disruptive.

> "Electric buses are "zero emission" (move the emission somewhere else) regardless of batteries vs power lines."

All electricity is not equally polluting. In the UK, and many other grids around the world, the peak demand periods are in the early morning and evening - exactly the times when the most buses are on the road!

At these peak times, more fossil-fuel power plants are typically active, so the carbon intensity of each kWh is higher. But overnight charging means that electric buses shift their energy use to when demand is lowest. Overnight electricity is not only much cheaper, but largely produced by renewables and nuclear, so the carbon intensity is low.

(OK, this may not be applicable in Montreal where most electricity is produced from hydro. But it does apply to the grids of most major European, North American, and Asian cities.)

>Again, you are incorrect here. If you don't believe me, please come to London (or any one of dozens of cities in China and Europe) where battery electric buses routinely operate all day, every day, with overnight recharging only.

I do not need to physically go to London to know you are incorrect. I can speak to an operations manager in London and ask him directly. There are absolutely no electric buses in London that operate a full day. Zero.

>In London, virtually all diesel buses are retired by the time they are 10 years old.

Yes, lots of cities do that. They are not retired because they need to be, they are retired because federal funding is available to retire them. Those exact buses are sold at a huge loss to private companies who operate them for another 30 years. In countries where there are no programs to throw the public's money in the garbage buying new equipment that isn't needed, diesel buses operate for 30-40 years.

>Overnight electricity is not only much cheaper, but largely produced by renewables and nuclear, so the carbon intensity is low.

It is not much cheaper. If it were actually a net benefit to shift electricity usage to night time using batteries, then that would still be done. You don't need the batteries in the buses to do that. It is actually much better for them not to be in the buses. There's lots of trollybus systems all over the world in active use. None of them install batteries to shift electricity usage to the night time. The reason is obvious, it isn't cost effective. You can't pretend a negative that you are stuck with is a positive when if it were actually a positive it would apply to the system you are fighting against too.

>However, it would be very difficult and costly to reinstate such a network today

There is nothing difficult about running wires. We already have people who do this job. It would be expensive. But it is less expensive than batteries, which is why cities where there are no corporate interests bribing politicians to buy expensive battery systems are buying trollybuses. You can't compare wires to nothing and proclaim them expensive, you have to compare it to the alternative, which is much more expensive.

>Battery electrics offer the best of both worlds

No, they do not.

>The smooth, quiet passenger experience and zero emissions of a trollybus

They are not zero emissions, they burn diesel all winter to heat the bus.

>with the flexibility and low fixed costs of diesel.

What low fixed costs of diesel? The only definition in which diesel is low cost is upfront purchase price, and by that measure battery powered buses are high cost, 160% of the cost even. In any long term cost comparison, trollybuses are cheaper than battery which are cheaper than diesel.