Earlier quoted context omitted.
But then my mom would have to dump out her purse every time she wanted to unlock her car.
safety pin near the top + carabiner = instant easy access keys
Genius!
Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
231–240 of 449 posts
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Insurance companies pressure drivers who have these misfeatures, drivers pressure car manufactures. See also: discounts for anti-theft tech and airbags.
The latest insurance "incentive" is a tracking device in your car that tracks when and where you drive, how fast, how hard you corner and stop, etc. I've declined this but expect that insurers will push for it to become mandatory. They would love to be able to charge unsafe drivers more money, and in the abstract I don't have a problem with that, but the tracking is creepy.
I think in California it's illegal for insurance to put in a black box that measures anything other than total # of miles driven.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If I were the insurance companies, I'd be putting pressure on the car companies And also give car owners an incentive to keep their keys safer, given how many vehicles out there are vulnerable to this. Just fixing this for new cars is only half the solution. I remember back in the 80s my parents got a discount on their insurance for installing a third brake light in the back window of their old Camaro. If my insura…
Could simply putting the thing in a foil/metal lined drawer in your entryway do the trick?
I've watched some DIY videos and am considering doing just this. I'm not sure how tight a seal you need though (one video said you want overlap from lid to sides/bottom), and the draws we have there aren't super tight. Maybe we'd make an enclosure within the drawer and be able to line that sufficiently?
If anyone knows how much leakage there would be for fobs/phones, and whether it makes a difference for this application (where the sniffer/attacker would be 10+ feet away), I'd love to know it!
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#234My mother in law just got her car stolen 3 days ago in Nice, France, fob thingy as well. Police just called today they found it, apparently car is ok.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#235I'm confused. Are there cars where the fob can automatically start the car, without any button presses, just from proximity? How did they not realize that was a bad idea?
It's not entirely clear from the article and conversation, but they're talking about passive FOBs that use the (presumed) proximity of the FOB to unlock the doors and allow the ignition button to work. These were created to stop you from having to physically dig out your keys.
If you need to push the button to unlock this won't work, but they could still smash a window and then relay attack the ignition. Challenge would be determining prior to the break-in if the FOB is close enough to relay. Plus the most vulnerable cars tend to be the most expensive. From the article I'm a little surprised the RAV4 has passive entry.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Embedded devices can be laggy at times. More efficient for the car to estimate the distance and power of the transmitter.
You’ll just estimate the distance and power of the relay. Roundtrip delay is the only thing you can’t fake.
The relay could emulate a reasonable power output, but that requires more precise measurements and would discourage thieves.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thats essentially how my car works right now, it's push to start, but you've got to have the fob slotted into a thing in the dash for the push to start button to actually work.
What vehicle do you have?
BMW late 2000s were like this. Maybe still are.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. A physical switch on the key itself which opened a circuit to the decryption key would mean the key would need to physically be in the possession of the driver.
This eliminates all of the convenience of keyless entry/start.
And what problem does keyless entry/start aim to solve?
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
A simple button on the fob (rather than in the car) that you must press to open the doors and to start the engine would mitigate the attack. No need for coupling
> A simple button on the fob (rather than in the car) that you must press to open the doors and to start the engine would mitigate the attack. Yes, reverting from passive-supported to active-only remote entry/start would eliminate the attack by eliminating the feature on which it is based. OTOH, the handsfree nature of passive remote entry is a major selling point.
As long as they’re not susceptible to replay attacks.
If they are, just do a stakeout and then replay it later in the day to gain access.
Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the timing method relies on a challenge response. In short, one side sends something and the other side expects a reply within some amount of time. If you just simply add distance to the system with no additional overhead. The time it takes for the ack should go up in a measurable amount of time. And if you did anything more -- like some of the system do today -- where they make a generic pipe that pipes it o…
Apparently UWB [1] is being touted as the solution to determining indoor location given that BLE and WiFi based on signal strength don't really work well. But development is still ongoing. [1] https://locatify.com/blog/in-practice-precise-indoor-locatio...
I used some Decawave UWB hardware years ago and even in somewhat complicated environments (though walls, multipath, other RF stuff going on) they were accurate within 5-10%.